Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just curious, I guess I was the last one to learn of Moose's death last year. I have kept leos as pets for as long as five years now. They're still very strong and healthy.

I've always loved to have a giant, but leads me to wonder about the longevity factor. Do you notice if they die sooner than normal-sized leos? I am certain that if the heart does not grow large as well as the body, the body size will put a special strain on it. Kind of like breeding chickens for large size. They die of heart conditions before or shortly after a year because their bodies are so large that it puts a larger strain on the heart's pumping capacity.

If that is so, I suppose it would bring on ethics issues to breed giants and super giants for size, in spite of the obvious danger to their health and life threatening condition.

What have you guys noticed? Anyone kept them over 5 years or so? Thanks

Wanda

I was wondering the same thing myself, especially this year. I'm not working with the Giants or any Giant gene that I'm aware of, but this year I had some hatchlings from one of my colonies that hatched out (I kid you not) about two & a half time larger than the average hatchling. Unfortunatly most of them didn't make it past a couple days. The longest live one was about two weeks. It's become predictable. The last one that hatched I took a look at in the incubator & knew it would be dead in a couple days. Sad to say, it was.

Some of the giant that hatched out before moose are still alive I believe, so I don't think being big really affects their longevity.

Just out of plain curiosity... I get the feeling that the giants, although stunning and beautiful, can't handle the excess size and their hearts give in, a lot sooner than the regular sized geckos.

You state that many giants from Moose's time are still alive but in a hobby where animals are often traded back and forth, it is difficult to track hatchlings way into adulthood. So we are not sure about how many of those are still alive, how old they are now, and how long have they lived, on average.

I own chickens as pets. Birds and reptiles are related in the evolutionary chain. Breeding chickens for roasters and meat or layers does have an effect on their longevity. Most people do not know because layers are often culled after a year or so. But roasters get to weigh 8 - 10 lbs and often die within a year if not culled beforehand. Their hearts do not enlarge like their body sizes do, and can't therefore handle the excess pumping.

I want to politely raise awareness to the fact that in efforts to breed larger leos, we may be sentencing them to an earlier death.

Off the top of my head other good examples would be Ligers(hybrid male lion & female tiger) & pro wrestler Andre the Giant.

Andre the giant is a special case. He had a disease that makes it so the body never stops growing till the day they die. Every person who has that disease dies early usualy alot earlier then andre the giant did.
They did a show on him it was pretty amazing biography.

I saw that on the Biography too. I thought it was really good as well. You are right, it is a special case. I was useing it as an example of how larger than normal doesn't have a normal life expectctancy. I agree, not the best example. It was off the top of my head.

Actually, it is no joke. Andre died of heart failure and our biggest giant, Robert Wadlow, also died in his sleep of heart failure. Most of those people with gigantism died like that.

Don't get me wrong, I think giants are stunning leos. But I hope the concern catches on, and animals aren't produced at the expense of their quality of life.

Ron Tremper has dozens of breeder giants and supergiants in the same age class as moose, and all these are doing fine and going strong. I wouldn't read too much into moose's death-it was undoubtedly an islolated event, since the same thing does not appear to be happening to other leos in the same bloodline.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

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