Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I bred a male albino Applegate to a female albino Applegate.
I got 8 eggs, four of which were infertile.
Of the four good eggs, ALL FOUR hatched out normal babies.

I've heard of this happening occasionally to a few eggs in an albino Applegate clutch, but four out of four??

I bred the same female to my patternless last year. Any chance she somehow used retained sperm from him instead of the albino male this spring?

>>Any chance she somehow used retained sperm from him instead of the albino male this spring?

Yani,
Weird! That would be my guess, but obviously only a guess. Out of curiosity, were the four fertile together in line? And any idea if they were the first out or the last out if so?

Best
Joe
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I don't recall. I have a clutch incubating from a second female bred to the same male. We'll see what happens there...

John, I have had that happen many times with a pair I got dirct from the man in 96. Out of over 100 eggs about 12% were normal and some years all wre amel with other years 3 or 4 being normal out of 10-12 eggs.And I never used any other animals with them so it wasn't retained sperm on my end.With you it very well could be so you will just have to keep them back and see what you get down the line.I will take a pair and breed them together if you want.It will be fun just to see if they are applegate or het patternless.

Shannon,
Does anyone understand why or what is up with that? I guess not but thought I would ask.

Forky
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I have talked a few times with aplebutter about it. and I think there may be a good chance that one of the normal females he went and collected to breed the w/c male to was het for another strain of amel.That would make the babies het for the visual he had then possible het for a unseen line.When bred together a few were actually hets and maybe you get both in a clutch and sometimes you just get normals and they are actually double hets.Lone story short maybe what I had for many years were one of each amel and they were both het for the other.Thats all I can come up with?
He said it happened to me and one guy over the pond and then I think Jason ended up with a male that was like that and thats all he ever heard of out of the 150 babies he produced over the years way back when.See the ones I got from him were already f2 animals.Its just weird it never happened to him.

I really can't think of any other reason at all.I am sure one day it will hit me like a ton of bricks.

L8r Shannon

p.s. about 3 or 4 years ago I gave Bob a pair of the normals to grow up and play with.He said they should go this year.

That's what I suspect - it would take a lot of breeding to normals to separate the amel genes.

In corns the WC founding charcoal was also het for anery.
It wouldn't surprise me if hidden hets are more common in WC stock than we tend to think - they just don't express unless you do a lot of line breeding.

What's ironic - in CA the DFG specifically does not require a permit to breed PE Albino and doesn't even allow you to list them on your possession permit.

So it's possible with different lines of PE Albino to produce a clutch that technically requires a permit to breed and requires reporting to them, yet have no adults listed on your possession record.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

John,

Any chance they are not both Applegates? Have they bred together before?

I had a female northern pine lay eggs this year that never saw a male, so I wouldn't count out sperm retention. I expect hers to hatch any day now. Question is, what do you sell them as? Het Applegate and either het patternless or het mystery albino maybe....
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

That is strange. I have the reverse. Out of a 9 egg clutch from Applegate to het breeding I got 8 albino's and 1 het! That sounds great but I really like the hets too. That's why I always breed het to albino. Good luck to you and take care!

Jeremy
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net