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The Blonde Albino T has finally had her litter there where a
total of 15 Double Hets and four visual animals in the litter.

The visual babies look far lighter than the babies from a
normal Blonde T litters but the biggest marker for me is the
tongue colour of these babies they all have light pink tongues
where the Blonde T Albinos have a lilac Tongue.

Your input is very much appreciated.

Peter Rice

HAVE THAT BLONDE MALE AND PLENTY OF SHARP FEMALES!!!!!MAJOR CONGRATS PETER!!!!

Ruben I am glad the wait was worth it for you

Peter

You don't even know! It's been a loooooong morning for me waiting to see the pix and results! I tried really hard to get Marc to spill the beans but he didn't budge!LoL I must have hit refresh about ten thousand times sense 7am! I even worked up a pretty bad headach just wondering what could've happened but that went away as soon as I saw he pic! How bout some more pix????? CONGRATS AGAIN ON AN AWESOME SEASON!

WEll Done Peter!. Yes they certainly are a lot lighter than the T+ Blonde Albino- having just had a litter this I can verify. Does the word Paradigm spring to mind???
Alan

ICONBOAS
Rhino Vivs

The paradigm works just like the "ultramel gene" in corn snakes but this is new. Unless there are hidden compatible genes from both parents then it would not explain why 75% of the litter are "double hets" and 25% visual abnormal babies. Hopefully there is a simple answer that doesnt take a few generations of test trials.Definitely cool results!

First off congrats on this pairing !
I've been waiting to hear about these results.
Now I'm more confused then before I think. This was a Homozygous Sharp Strain paired with a homozygous T Blonde(Zig-Zig Line,right?) So 15 Dh , with 4 visual babies tells me somethings up with the Sharp strain boas genetics, but what exactly. Why only 4 visual babies ? You'd think you would end up with all visual babies. More pics might be nice too ,LOL.
. . . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

Nice one Peter! Congrats on another great litter.

I think quite a few of us have been on the edge of our seats waiting for this litter! Thanks for sharing the outcome with us all!!

Now we just need to work out how the getetics have produced such unexpected results!

Marc
www.selectivebred.com

I am so confused. I don't understand exactly. If both parents are homozygous or "visual" examples of simple recessive mutations, then all the offspring should be "Double Het" for both traits. If these two different simple recessive traits rest on the same allele, then all the babies should be visuals like the Paradigm Boas.

You have 15 non-visuals and four visuals. I assume the mother is the "Blonde T" animal correct? Then sperm retention would explain the four visuals as four "Blonde T" animals. Unless I am missing something, which is certainly possible, I don't think there is another explanation other than that I detailed. Is there?
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The four anomalies seem way lighter than what i have seen as blonde albinos. If the blonde mother was a het then half the babies would have been visuals if it were like the paradigm, but 4 out of 19 isnt way unlikely to have been a bum split. The cool thing is that vpi and blonde are incompatible. A carmel hypo to blonde breeding may answer some questions

Who did VPI X T Blonde breeding and when ?
. . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

It was an assumption that they are not compatible since vpi x sharp results in double hets and a blonde x sharp results in either something new and unexplainable or in the event that the blonde mother was a het blonde, a result similar to a paradigm. If that were the case then i bet a blonde x caramel breeding would result in 100% offspring looking something in between the two and work like another paradigm

Hi Jeff
This was the first breeding for the Blonde T she has only been bred by the Albino Sharp male this year. so sperm retention is
not a consideration.

A Genetic puzzle which should unfold with more breedings

That's really interesting ! I knew that was gonna be your answer ! LOL.
This is great stuff.
. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I think it is great when something like this comes along and
upsets the GENETIC rule book.

Cheers Peter

BEING TOTALLY STOKED!!!!!!!!THANKS SO MUCH PETER FOR DOING THIS BREEDING AND HELPING WITH THE EXPORT OF MY MALE! ALSO HUGE THANKS TO MARC NORI FOR MY MALE! I'M SO EXCITED! PETER YOUR THAT MAN!YOU'VE HAD AN AWSOME YEAR SO FAR!

In my excitement I spelled Marcs last name wrong! Should be Norrie!

No problem Ruben, you are more than welcome!

Lets hope he brings you as much luck as Peter & I have had with this very interesting morph! Who know what genetic suprises they hold?!.............

Marc
www.selectivebred.com

First time she was ever bred by anything or first time she ever bred successfully? The reason I ask again is the results do not make sense given the results you clearly have. It just doesn't make sense.

A male that may have previously bred that female could certainly have made a sperm deposit that may have hung around until this years ovulation. The other possibility, and I HATE to mention this because it comes up too often is, parthenogenesis.

Otherwise, the four babies that are clearly something special, given the 15 non-visual babies, do not fit into the "Paradigm" type scenario where the two different simple recessives reside on the same location.
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I hope Peter doesn't mind me answering for him. It's late over there and I think he's retired for the night...

This was the first time the female was bred by a male. No previous sperm deposits or contact with a male.

Alex

You're tha man Peter...this is HUGE!
MAJOR Congrats on this litter!

The fact that the Sharp combined with another morph producing something as you have shown in the picture is reason enough to (as you guys say in the UK) GET PISSED!

Grats!
Alex

I have been pissed for about an hour now and it feels good.

Peter

Congrats-very interesting! We are thinking about how to interpret these results vs the paradigm!

I think the results will be outstanding when we bred back to the double hets.
I would suggest that if we bred a visual animal into a double het the litter should consist of the following
Visuals [the visual babies produced in this litter]
Sharp Albino Het Visual
Blonde Albino Het Sharp Strain
Double hets.
The visual marker between the visual and the Blonde Albino would I suggest be the tongue colour.

I would also suggest to improve the appearence of the visuals
would be to eventually breed an Albino het Visual to a visual
I would imagine this would give you even lighter babies due to
the inceased albino presence in the genetics.

This is only my oppinion

Peter

....be fun to see how the genetics play out.

I always said it is going to be really exciting over the next few years to see where the Boa genetics take us!
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Yes it just keep getting better

Peter

Great stuff.
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www.repteq.com

CONGRATS!! They look great!
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Paul Snyder

That is an awesonme litter....congrats! How's about showing us a few pics of the parents?

Again...beautiful litter!
Ryan DeCaro

Here you go Ryan

Cheers Peter

Pic of dam and sire

Peter

Stunning animals Peter... Thanks for sharing with us!
Ryan DeCaro

Hello, Peter big props on such a crazy litter. It appears you have a genie in a bottle with endless possibilities. Looking forward to see where the genetics take you. Continued success and best wishes. Take care. Andrew

Andrew thanks for your kind comments I will keep everyone
up to speed as the project moves forward

Cheers Peter

Jeff's discussion above is correct with regard to the cross of homozygous recessive "albino T" X homozygous recessive Sharp albino - it would yield 100% double hets and no visuals so long as the genes for these traits do not reside at the same locus (the Sharp albino locus). If the "albino T" was yet another allele occurring at the Sharp albino locus, then all of the offspring should be the intermediate visuals (parallel to Sharp X Caramel-hypo = all paradigms). This litter does not fit either of these two possibilities.

I think that parthenogenesis is unlikely as I have not heard of a litter (or single group of offspring of anything of any kind) consisting of some that were produced sexually and some that were produced asexually (i.e. by parthenogenesis). That doesn't mean it's not possible, but all the information I have seen suggests that parthenogenesis is an all or nothing kind of deal (I have done a lot of research on this topic of late, and will soon be posting about a very curious litter of my own after I've had a chance to think it through a little more ) - of course it could also be that you just wouldn't usually have any reason to suspect that some in a litter/offspring group were sexually produced and others parthenogenically produced.

Some other considerations......

How "well proven" are the genetics of the "blonde albino T"? Is it absolutely certain that this is a simple recessive trait?

How certain is it that the visuals in the litter are not just exhibiting "albino T"? Is the tongue color possibly within the normal range of variability, or possible related to size/age?

If the "albino T" trait were dominant and the mother heterozygous for this trait (i.e. she'd be a visual het, as with the Salmon-hypo and Motley genes, for example), then that would open up the possibility that the 4 visual offspring are "albino T" OR that the "albino T" allele does reside at the Sharp albino locus and that in combination with a Sharp albino allele produces a new visual intermediate morph, paralleling the paradigm genetics. In either of these two scenarios, this litter would just be a case of bad odds. To make the numbers more convenient, the expected number of visuals in a litter of 20 for each of these scenarios is 10. Having got 4, the probability of deviating 6 or more from the expected result of 10 is 1.2% - not impossibly bad odds, but pretty bad.

If the "albino T" trait is recessive and the mother is homozygous for this trait, it could be that the Sharp male is het for this trait and that it is completely unrelated to the Sharp albino locus. With this scenario, the same 1.2% bad odds apply (because the number of expected visuals is again 10 in a litter of 20).

If the "albino T" trait were dominant and the mother heterozygous for this trait, the "albino T" allele could be combining with an unknown recessive allele carried by the Sharp male at a locus other than the Sharp albino locus and creating an intermediate visual morph. In this case, the expected number of visuals in a litter of 20 would be 5, and so 4 is a very likely outcome.

Finally, it could be that the male and female are both heterozygous for a previously unknown recessive trait that has expressed itself in 4 of the offspring - here again, 4 would be a very likely outcome as the expected number of visuals would be 5 in a litter of 20.

I don't particularly care for any of these possible scenarios based on what I know at the moment - I was just trying to throw out any possibilities I could think of. However, I would be very interested to find out how much is really known about the genetics of the "blonde albino T" trait itself, because if it is NOT simple recessive then more of the above possibilities open up. Alternatively, if it IS simple recessive, then the only scenarios above that apply have a rather low probability of occurrence suggesting that the answer may lie elsewhere yet!

Any info on the work done toward proving the nature of the "albino T" genetics may be helpful - pardon my ignorance on this one, I just have not followed its development closely.
Thanks!

Steve Reiners
BoaMorph
www.BoaMorph.com

You covered so much. I , too need to know more about the Blonde T to form a firm opinion of what is going on genetically. Something is making me think that it is not simple recessive.

Whatever is going on -- huge congrats to you !!!!!
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Snake room janitor

Steve,

Although there have been many other Blonde Albino breedings, heres a little more info on my experience with this fascinating morph .........

In 2005 I paired a male het with a female het, this produced approx 25% visuals & 75% normal looking boas (66% poss hets)

In 2006 I paired the same Boas with very similar typical results.

This season I paied a male Pastel Boa with a female visual Blonde Albino form my 2005 litter. The resulting babies were great looking Pastels with no visual Blonde Albinos. Therefore all 100% hets.

In 2005 Alan Singleton bought a pair of my 66% poss hets from me. Alan paired these together this season & produced a nice litter of both visuals & hets, proving the parents both to be het Blonde Albino.

I hope that helps?

Marc
www.selectivebred.com

Thanks for this well thought out explanation Steve. I've been reading and reading all day,trying to deepen my understanding of such possibilities. Especially those that involve different Alleles at different Loci.
. . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

Thanks for the far more detailed discussion Steve. I'd call that Genetics 202 or something like that. There must be some explanation for the cool babies in that litter. The fact is that they just will not fit into any of the categories we know are true for a breeding of two homozygous simple recessive mutants. So what are they or what caused this to occur.

I too have not been able to glean the what or the how or the when of the "Blond T" trait. I have read scores of posts regarding them but they always seem to descend into a defensive posture before any of the simple questions are answered. I'd love to know more clearly about it, along with a photographic record to illustrate that explanation. That would be nice.
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What would you like to know Jeff?

I have written a brief summary of my breeding results with these Boas on a post a few above this one. I also have more info & photos on my web site.

Let me know your questions & I'll answer what I can.

Marc
Link

Jeff
Let me know what info you need and I will try to fill you in
This litter has got me stumped and excited.

The crazy world of Boa Genetics gets people thinking is'nt Boa
Breeding the BEST!!!!!!!!

Peter

I am now for hollidays and not able to show pics of the blonde X sharp litter I got the 15 th of may.
I have had a very small litter with 1 week prematured babies, they were all T like, visual dbl hets !
I will explain what I think when I am back, around the 6 th of august.

your Sharp X Blonde breeding had all visuals like Peter's in it? With no normals?

Hi,
I have a intrest in these Blonde T Albino's as I have just bred a litter of visual and hets.
Do you have pictures of the litter, also were there any slugs?
Thanks
Alan
ICONBOAS.
RHINO VIVS.