Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I am the guy that was wanting to get a keeled box turtle for my first turtle, however I was told by several of ya'll that they probably wouldn't be the best choice for someone who is just beginning with turtles. I'm kinda disappointed in that because they are my favorite looking by far (that and the flowerback). Plus they are kinda expensive and I don't know if I want to take that kind of risk of one dying. Does anyone have any thoughts to what the top two or three best candidates for a beginner box turtler would be? Are there any box turtles that could adapt well to a 50-70 gallon aquarium? Like maybe a Malay? I am really only interested in box turtles. No tortoises or anything else.
Thanks
~Mark

There is not a north american species that will do well indoors or in a tank for long. Also, with the strictly terrestrial species, floor space is a big need, and a tank is too small for these guys who have evolved to roam long distances.

I'm not well versed in Malayans, but they might do well in a 70 gallon tank. Personally I would not use the 50 for anything other than juveniles or a hospital tank for times of need.

I'm sure someone here has better info about malayans. The cool thing about them is with lots of swimming space and the land area overhanging it, they can get a lot more use out of the tank than a terrestrial box turtle can.

Nathan is right about the semi-terrestrial nature of malayans making it easier to make more use of the space in the tank but i still think an adult wouldn't be ideally suited to anything other than avery large tank.
If you get a hatchling yu could probably keep it in a 70 gallon for a few years....by then you can have a small indoor pen made .
Also, I wouldn't bother with the 50 gallon at all.

I've been doing a lot of researching on the web and have called a few people and they pretty much agree with everything you guys said. The thing is, I live in a small apartment and I really don't have room to build any kind of pen. But I want a turtle really bad. From what I've found, I'm kinda narrowed down to these types of choices...musk turtles, mud turtles, a reeves terrapin, or a spotted turtle (my peronal favorite)
I knew that keeping a Mayalan in any kind of aquarium tank would probably be a stretch, but I dont know. I've actually got pictures from various websites of people keeping full sized box turtles in aquariums. Like eastern, malayan and even keeled. But I've also read websites like austinsturtlepage and turtlecare that strickly said, DO NOT KEEP A BOX TURTLE IN AN AQUARIUM! Looks like I can pretty much rule out owning a box turtle!
Thanks a lot for the help guys.

also, I have pictures of the aquariums which people kept their box turtles in, but I couldn't figure out how to post them up here. And also I dont have the link anymore! hmmm....

I used to house box turtles in two ways that I have changed. 1) indoors, and 2) in tanks. After over 21 years of raising box turtles, I have learned that tanks are not good homes for anything but babies, and that indoor living is not good for anything but babies and the sick. They just slowly fade (it can take years for them to fade away).

If you are interested in muds, musks, or spotteds, I can help you with a lot of information. All turtles do better outdoors, but these species will tolerate indoor living quite well without the withering a box turtle has. Spotteds are much more expensive, and slightly more prone to fungal or other problems than muds and musks, but all three are fairly easy to setup and maintain in a 70 or larger tank. Again, buy a tank with a larger floor size, not gallon size, the larger the floor area, the better, since all three of these use shallow water, and spotteds will need a land area as well.

Personally, as a first turtle, I cannot speak enough good words for muds and musks. Not only that, but there are plenty of attractive ones. They are also quick to become very NOT shy, and more active and interesting. Spotteds tend to stay more shy and be less interesting to watch once you get past the pretty yellow polka dots.

Any of those three is a great choice, though. Just be sure you set up RIGHT from the beginning. Get your tank and setup running and have it so for a month before getting the turtle. Learn what is good and bad about it while empty, get the biological filtration running, etc.

Good luck! I'm glad you are responsible enough to pick the species that fits your situation. You will have much more fun and a lot less disappointment this way.

First of all, I want to say that I really appreciate your help. You have been really informative and helpful in me trying to make a decision here. And I'll have to admit that initially, a musk or a mud turtle was not at the top of my list of turtles that I wanted. However since I've narrowed this down to a small semi-aquatic turtle, it looks like those are among my best choices. Now I've done some research online on Musk and Mud turtles and I am finding somewhat conflicting information about their compatability as being a good pet turtle. Austinsturtle page is a big proponent for them as being great beginner turtles. I've read several of the caresheets on that site, and I actually thought a couple of the Musk species were kinda neat looking in their own way. My favorite was the loggerhead musk turtle. However another website that I refer to frequently called centralpets.com (i'll provide the link below) says that Musk Turtles are VERY aggresive and very rarely kept in captivity. I've also referred to my Audubon Society reptile field guide and it confirms their aggressiveness and the painful bites they are capable of delivering (the razorback musk being an excepion, however the drawback with them is their shy and reclusive behavior, kinda boring)
But this isn't really my main big issue with Musks. Now as the name says, these are "Musk" Turtles and when they feel threatened can deliver an extremely nautious odor. They are kinda like the skunks of the reptile world right? I've also read that most people rarely experience this because they have docile turtles. But I live in a small apartment, and I'm kinda hesitant about wanting to buy a turtle that can end up making my entire apartment smell like a sewage factory. Im actually kinda surprised that these reptiles are so popular as pets considering this horrible smell they can let out. It's because of this that I'm kinda leaning more towards a Spotted Turtle or even a Reeves or Diamond Terrapin, as I think these are attractive and perhaps far less aggressive(at least from what ive read). I mean, I don't want my turtle to be entirely a display piece, I do want to let it out and hold it from time to time, maybe even let it wander around my patio outside. I was thinking I could do this with a Spotted however they are so darn expensive! I'm not sure if Reeves Terrapins are any less expensive, but I do know that Musks Turtles are considerably cheaper. What are your thoughts on this? You say you really like musks, but how aggressive have they been towards you? Have you ever been allowed to take them out and hold them without them trying to bite you? Have you ever been bitten by one? Have they ever let out that smelly odor? I bet it stinks huh?! I thought it was funny when I read that stinkpots are sometimes known as "Stinking Jims" haha...Man, I could imagine having a party and having one of those things letting off a Stinking Jim in the middle of it. What a party killer that would be!

Link to Musks at CentralPets.com
this website also said that Reeves and Spotted Turtles would probably make a better beginner pet.

Thanks again for your knowledge and help!
The Stinkpot

What you have read is correct, but it is relative to WILD musk turtles. These guys adapt so fast to captivity you would be amazed. Raising a hatchling is particularly satisfying, as they show fear for such a short time, then realize you mean food and will start following you around the tank. My spotteds are still secretive and retreat from me, but muds and musks I've kept learned not to be really fast.

Musks will make stink, if they are wild ones, until they learn to be comfortable with you. This is really not a big deal, and it might happen to you once or twice if you get a wild caught animal. If you get a hatchling, it will never happen.

As for biting, I've had little ones try to nip me, but they quickly switched to just gaping (opening the mouth in a threatening manner) then stopped even that. In any case, they are easy to handle without getting bitten (softshells and snappers are the only ones I worry about bites from). A full grown musk can give a nasty pinch if it does get you, but it will most likely not break the skin, just scare you (I still yell "ow!" if bitten by a turtle, even though none of mine can even make real pain). I've had oversized painted turtles hanging off my finger when they accidentally bit it instead of the pellet I was offering, and while it's a shock, it's really not painful.

Musks can be aggressive, but it is usually only in the sense of male-male aggression in their species, or accidental biting while eating. I've not noticed aggression otherwise, and many people keep them with other turtles. Any species can be like this. Even male spotteds will battle. If you get a hatchling and raise it, then are able to determine the sex, and you want to get another of the species, just be sure to get the opposite sex, or have two females.

You are right on spotteds cost. Their small size (same as muds/musks, but not needing a large land area in addition to water) makes them sought after as pets, their colors help.

Loggerheads are pretty animals, especially if you get one that keeps it's juvenile coloration (some people believe that lots of snails and crayfish and such in the diet will help this). Their big heads and constant trundling along the bottom of the tank are really an interesting thing to watch. With them, also, you can have a very small basking spot and devote the rest of the tank to a large expanse of shallow water with driftwood, plants, and such, which they will love.

I tend to disagree somewhat with the info at the link you've provided. It just doesn't match up with what I've experienced, and other keepers have.

It's true they might not be as attractive as a spotted, but I truly think they make a better "pet".

Whatever you decide, you will likely enjoy the pet. I know of nobody who did not like the musk turtle they had. Just remember if you get a spotted that you need to create a land area of good size for it.

Thanks again so much for all of your helpful advice. I'm actually going to print off some of your posts as they have been very helpful, even more so than several of the websites I have been to. (ever thought of making your own site?)

What you have said seems to go right along with other great things I've read about musk turtles from several people in these forums. I wish I could continue talking about this on here, but this is a box turtle forum so I guess it wouldn't be appropriate. But you have disuaded me from getting a spotted box turtle and especially from getting box turtles. Aside from their sheer cost alone (a family breeder in my town sells spotted turtles for 300 dollars each!) I agree that the "cool" spotted look might eventually get old and I do want a turtle that will move around and be interesting.

Actually right now, I'm seriously looking into Diamondback terrapins as well, but what I really wish I could do is put a Diamondback in the same tank as a Musk or Mud. I'm not sure if this is possible or what the size and special requirements might be. (I am guessing maybe not a good idea, because Diamonds like clean water and Musks like it dirty?)
I actually posted this same inquiry in the General Turtles Forum, so if you get a chance I would appreciate any thoughts/advice in there you have on that.

Again thank you so much for helping me make an educated decision. It always helps to get individual testimonials
~Mark

Musks and muds don't like it dirty. They do like it full of plants and with plenty of places to hide, but you still want very clean water (learning about aquarium keeping is a good idea).

On the diamondbacks... the main issue is that diamondback females get extremely large, way to big to house in anything less than a MASSIVE tank of 200 gallons or more, with lots of deep water (they are a deep water turtle).

Diamondbacks are also some of the most sensetive to water conditions and if you choose to keep them in fresh water, even more succeptible to fungal infections if water conditions are not absolutely pristine. They are a good turtle if you have an immaculate outdoor pond, or a massive indoor tank, and know a LOT about keeping an aquarium perfectly clean (uv sterilizers, bio filtration, chemical balance, etc.).

Male diamondbacks are smaller, but otherwise with the same requirements (you could probably do a 120 gallon for a male diamondback).

Dbacks are pretty, but not the greatest pets.

Oh, and I do have a site, but I no longer plug it as I haven't updated it in years and it doesn't contain all that much anyway (www.aileo.com/aileona) feel free to take a look. I would like to have a better information site, but it's a lot of work to maintain and I am a webmaster already. I keep up a city's sites (all of them) solo, and do my own domains and some side work. It leaves little time or desire for extra web work.

Good luck! Feel free to ask any questions you wish: nathan(at)aileo(dot)com

i had a musk turtle for 8 years it was very good pet. I keep it in a 10 gal fish tank filled with water. I did have a place made were he could climb out of the water but i have read that with musk turles thats not neseasery. They dont smell at least not the one i had. You need a good filter to keep the water clean. I feed him floating turle food and keep gold fish in the tank with him. He spent a lot of time chasing the fish and always got them all. Once when i was cleaning out the tank he did bite me so be care full. but it was rare to take him out of the tank. A good filter will keep the water clean but once a year i did clean out the whole tank. I did like him as a pet it was fun to watch him chase the gold fish. I let him go back to the same lake were were caught him when fishing. We just ran out of room in the house to keep the turle tank. Musk's turles are very aggrisave so i feel he is still doing fine. I see them for sale on the clasiffeds and they are not expencive so i would recomound it as a fist time pet.
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Jack