Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just love it

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Darwin Rocks!

all three really nice.... but I like the thayeri best.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Joe that is one of Tim's earth toned or what some call retro line thayeri. Hands down he is my favorite snake in my collection. Here are some other thayeri I've posted on the mexicana sub forum

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Darwin Rocks!

all three of them are nice too. Out of that batch my fav is the middle one. I remembered that prior snake was an earth tone line. Did you say that one bred this year?
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

He sired one clutch, which hatched this weekend. This is him again along with the female he was bred to. She is a Sipperly Applegate derivative from lines that have been in my collection since the early 80's

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Darwin Rocks!

Yes that is a neat one. It's no wonder they are so popular. Thanks for sharing the lineage too as I always am curious about that sort of stuff. Great thayeri!

What did Charles Darwin's failed theories have to do with those beautiful examples of God's creation?

Maybe I missed something.

I like that Bairds.
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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Blind faith and literal interpretations does not disprove theories Chris. By explaining the mechanisms of speciation Darwin opened up a whole new demention to nature for naturalist to appreciate hence he rocks.
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Darwin Rocks!

I offended you and I apologize.

I would like for you to know that Charles Darwin was a racist.

He fell short of the eugenics madness of Hitler, but not far.

In "The Descent Of Man" (his lesser known followup to Origin of the Species), he states the following.

"At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes...will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla (1874, p. 178).

Just to keep this on topic, my site is updated w baby pics.

Check it out!

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Your post did not offend Chris. I just pointed out that your faith, no matter how real it is for you, does not disprove anything.

As for the matter at hand, which is Darwin's take on selection of the species rocking, his being a racist or not is not at issue. Character assassination is a classic tactic for weak positions.
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Darwin Rocks!

Sorry, again.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Failed theories?? The theory of evolution has been borne out so many times ,continually, with each and every new find, that to look at it as a failed theory is more than a bit irresponsible to say the least. And at least it's a theory. The best anyone can come up with their god existing(I say "their" god as there are so many gods out there i don't quite know who's god we are talking about) is not even a theory, it's just blind faith. And they don't call it blind for nothin. To quote Socrates, a very wise man in any era: " I do not know for certain about death and the gods but I am certain as I can be that YOU do not know either." A good friend once marvelled at a sunset with me on a snake cruising drive and said it had to be one of god's most beautiful creations. Because I understand that it was not simply and magically stirred into existence by a divine chef my wonder is heightened to pinnacles the religious will never achieve or fathom.So I repeat what Tony says=="Darwin Rocks" or is it Pet Rocks! who knows?(and that's the point)

Did not mean to make this a theology forum instead of the much preferred kingsnake forum as there is a time and a place. I am just taking exception to the recent rash of god espousers , or am I the only one who has noticed?This is kingsnake.com's kingsnake forum, and I will not get into a religious discourse again. Once more, sorry 'bout that.

...and so does God.

Natural selection is provable and is absolutely real (in fact, it was brought about by Christian scientists).

Molecules-to-man evolution is not, however.

We can chit chat more on Thurs if you'd like, or maybe we should just keep the conversation on snakes

P.S. I will show you the few spots I found right by the house. Prolly too hot but at least you'll know where they are.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

You just don't get it, I suppose. See you Thursday. "People get sent to burn in hell for all eternity and why. Because god loves you."-George Carlin

Howie!,....you guy's are too much!..hahaha!

Look at the "crazed" look in this dudes eyes!..LOL!

later!, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Yup! It's the religious fanatics and organized religion that have poisoned so many young minds(and older minds too) with crazed intolerance for anyone who dares to think independently and dare to question.The fringe sects are the worse of all.An infiltrator to one of those reptile handling sects(I'm embarrassed to say that was in my home state of Va)reported many bites from the indiscriminate handling of the pit vipers during the services.These are never reported as happening, nor do they mention the lost fingers, neurological damage and other disabling effects of envenomation when left untreated.That guy does look a bit insane. Sadly, Steve Irwin had that same look in his eyes.

LOL!!,.......yes!, he DID have the same "crazed" look in his eyes!, didn't he,...hahah!

As a matter of fact,...it looks just like Steve would have looked as an old man!....."CRIKEY"!!!!...rest his soul!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

too bad he had a soft spot in his heart for rays. You gonna be at Daytona?

I hope to be Howie,....but I'm not real sure right now, with a big house move coming up and all!. But I will sure as heck try!

And if I do,...you will surely be on my list to chat to!

later!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

sounda like you have some anger issues with God.

You know I beleive the Jews are His special people He decided to work with . I still can't quite figure out why he didn't pick the germans.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

No anger issues, there is nothing to be angry at.Looking forward to see you running around like a madman down in daytona next month.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised to see someone in this hobby that doesn't appreciate Darwin's observations, insight, and bravery (to publish it in that time period).. intereting. That diversity in view is what makes this country great!

Darwin was extremely wrong - he didn't know about genes, his mechanism was totally bunk, etc. - and basically the only thing modern evolution has in common with Darwin is that speciation happens.

That being said - I don't think this is the place to discuss it.

There is a time and a place to every purpose under heaven.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

There is no place here for religious discourse. That is why I get so irked and jump in when someone (in this case a friend) brings god into the forum and interjects his religious point of view. Which is why this forum should clearly recognize the separation of church and snake.

Tony D was just espousing his viewpoint.

:-D

Check out the red noggin on this thayeri.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

I always do that

Try THIS red noggin....

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

You mean it's supposed to be "about the snake's" on this forum???

I would have NEVER of guessed by looking ..hahaha!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

But that is what is so amazing-DESPITE working before any knowledge of heredity or genes or inheritance or modern concepts of ecological interaction, Darwin STILL came up with a theory that, despite being wrong in some details, is still universally accepted throughout modern science (outside certain fundamentalist christian and Islamic institutions) as to its basic tenets-speciation and natural selection.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

That the idea (not the term, which is all Darwin can claim) of Natural Selection was originally Edward Blythe's (a christian).

He writes (in a paper from 1835)

"It is a general law of nature for all creatures to propagate the like of themselves: and this extends even to the most trivial minutiæ, to the slightest individual peculiarities; and thus, among ourselves, we see a family likeness transmitted from generation to generation. When two animals are matched together, each remarkable for a certain given peculiarity, no matter how trivial, there is also a decided tendency in nature for that peculiarity to increase; and if the produce of these animals be set apart, and only those in which the same peculiarity is most apparent, be selected to breed from, the next generation will possess it in a still more remarkable degree; and so on, till at length the variety I designate a breed, is formed, which may be very unlike the original type. "

Darwin gives homage to Blyth in the first chapter of Origin of the Species.....

"...Mr Blyth, whose opinion, from his large and varied stores of knowledge, I should value more than that of almost any one..."

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

The best part about the theory of evolution is that you dont have to BELIEVE it....all you have to do is open your eyes and see it happening all around you.
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God Bless Evolution.

Not molecules-to-man evolution.

That is an impossiblilty.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Well Chris...and I definitely dont want to start the debate up again...Ive heard the "microevolution is possible, but not macroevolution" argument many times. You simply cannot concede microevolution w/o conceding macroevolution also. All those small changes can easily add up to big changes over the vast scope of geologic time.

But what many christians get upset about is that they mistakenly think the idea of evolution discounts or eliminates the possibility of a creator. Evolution speaks in no way to the origin of life...only how life has proceeded since its inception. Therefore evolution and the idea of a creator are not mutually exclusive.
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God Bless Evolution.

"Well Chris...and I definitely dont want to start the debate up again...Ive heard the "microevolution is possible, but not macroevolution" argument many times. You simply cannot concede microevolution w/o conceding macroevolution also."

Sure you can. They are vastly diferent and those terms are bogus. It all started when the anti-creator crowd decided that somehow natural selection was evolution. It isn't and that is not a new idea.

"All those small changes can easily add up to big changes over the vast scope of geologic time."

That's a poorly made assumption and is simply not true. A dog will never make a horse. it doesn't have the necessary genetic code to do so and no amount of time will make it able to. The changes result in a loss of genetic information, not gain.

"But what many christians get upset about is that they mistakenly think the idea of evolution discounts or eliminates the possibility of a creator."

That is correct.

"Evolution speaks in no way to the origin of life...only how life has proceeded since its inception. Therefore evolution and the idea of a creator are not mutually exclusive."

I can see they have you with the bogus terms as well. I think we are sayng the same thing essentially.

Don't let them tell you that natural selection is the same as creating DNA and a translator out of some primordial goop with lightning or some such. It just cannot happen.

Natural selection is cool, however, and observable.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

We are a diverse group of folks here and I think we need to respect each others opinions/beliefs. (Scott Koonts babies)

man those are really nice,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Evolution means change over time...thats it. And youre right, its not debatable, all organisms change over time. The bogus analogies the creationist crowd throws out there such as "a sparrow cannot become a kangaroo" hold no water since evolution makes no such claims. You have exhibited that you have evolution and origin of life mixed into the same bag by your responses and they are two completely different ideas/theories.

Evolution does happen, species do change and diverge based upon selection pressures and changes in their environment, and completely new forms of animals have arisen that look, behave, and respond to challenges in ways that are completely different from the ancestors that they arose from. Natural selection is a piece of the evolutionary puzzle, it controls what traits are passed on based upon selection pressures. But there are other factors in the evolutionary mix too. DNA does replicate and mutations do happen that impart new, sometimes favorable traits to offspring. It has been observed. In fact, as breeders, we perform a form of artificial selection and have observed changes that occur that are nothing like we expect.

I respect your right to believe in a creator. I havent said I dont believe in a creator. But I also disagree with a literal interpretation of the bible as an explanation for the diversity of life on Earth. Note I said diversity, not creation. There is simply not one shred of tangible evidence to support the creationist viewpoint. Contrarily, there are literally volumes of evidence supporting evolutionary theory.

And the kicker is, since Darwin's idea was published...for the next 150 yrs...even with the leaps in technology and instrumentation...there has been no new scientific discovery made that points away from evolution. Granted, there are gaps in the puzzle still, but every day new puzzle pieces are found that give a clearer picture that evolution is indeed the way life proceeds.
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God Bless Evolution.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

creation... what a thing to beleive but its all around if we could but perceive...
god loves us all including you and darwin!,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Just figured I'd put my 2 cents worth in........

I remember a sermon I heard as a kid in the Episcopal Church. My priest talked about how you should be very careful to not put God in a box. Do not put limitations on what has been done by saying it is imposible for it to have happened that way.

Microevolution, macroevolution.......why is it impossible? Wich is more wonderous, some speciaiton or the journay a molecule may have taken to become a man. To my mind it speaks more to the genuis of God for it to have happened. I would never think to place Him in a box by saying it could not have happened. Putting one in a box is to place limits on him..........

.

That was VERY well said. Thanks!
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Darwin Rocks!

But what many christians get upset about is that they mistakenly think the idea of evolution discounts or eliminates the possibility of a creator. Evolution speaks in no way to the origin of life...only how life has proceeded since its inception. Therefore evolution and the idea of a creator are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry but saying you are a Christian and discounting the bible as the word of god does not go hand in hand.

Look how the bible says Adam was created and that Eve was created from his rib. If you discount one thing you might as well discount all of it.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

WOW !!! That is a text book Eastern.

Walter