Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello everyone. i just have something that i've been wondering about that maybe someone could shed the light on.
my question is how do you get the white sided mutation? at first i thought maybe it was just a happenchance. i've seen them in bulls, rats, kings, and numerous other snakes. it doesn't seem like the same mutaion would just show up in so many different species. so, where does it come from? does it come from breeding two different morphs together? bleaching the bottom half of the egg while incubating? just kidding seriously though, it has me curious. thanks....
jonathan

It is just a spontaneous mutation that has popped up in several different species (genus for that matter). It is a simple recessive inheritable trait. It is neat how it has shown up in so many different animals. The Pantherophis (ratsnakes) have some in different subspecies, but I don't know how many of those were crossed to get the trait into the other sub. The speckled kings are awesome! The whiteside Sonoran is stunning as well. Still my favorite is a nice crisp white sided bull! I don't think that people have crossed say a bullsnake with the speckled king or vise versa to get the whiteside into different species. Just a common coincidence. I hope that answered your question. If not ask away and I'll try to help. Take care.

Jeremy
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net

Other examples are amelanism, hypomelanism, anerythrism, and axanthism all of which are common mutations we see across a huge range of species and subspecies. It would be interesting to find out the method by which the whitesided gene prevents pigmentation on the sides as it would likely show us why it pops up in so different of populations.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

It has to do with the neural crest - though I must say I didn't fully understand the description of why white sided morphs happen when I read it - but it is something to do with the neural crest during development.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

thanks for the feedback. no i agree with you that i don't think they are cross breeding especially when it shows up in so many different kinds (genus)
me, i'm kind of a conspiracy theory kind of guy maybe not totally... but i was wondering if someone was doing some gene splicing or something? (i know kinda out there) you never know now days. my other idea was that there was a certain pattern of breeding to get them originally. such as, breeding a triple het___ to a double het___ (slightly more plausible in my own mind)
it just had me curious. it just seems too easy to me that they just happen to show up. i guess if your breed enough of anything thing you will have mutations (hypo, albino, ect...) thanks again for the feedback...
jonathan

Splicing is pretty much out of the question. We don't have snake genomes sequenced yet and the cost of splicing would be greater than that made from producing a new whiteside animal.

I'd guess it is a pattern mutation, a failed hox gene or something like that, resulting in pigmentation being redirected dorsally. A single good copy would thus result in normal pigmentation, making this a recessive trait. Could be another cause, that is just my first guess.
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Nick Puder
www.rnpreptiles.com

I would not call it a coincidence...it is just showing the genetic ties between these different "species" of snakes...if you really look at pits...the are really vamped up rat snakes...and rat snakes are easily crossed with kings...and these snakes are only found in North America...they are all very closely related...so have similiar origins in the genetic history.
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Michael Enriquez

Outstanding point.
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net