Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is the link to the newest post in that thread...just in case it gets missed
Hatchling deformity post

wow thanks I was too lazy to scroll down the page

..that is a bad one......kill it fast and humanely.....

....sorry...it happens for no reason at times
-----
......

I don't know if I can...If there is any chance it can survive I want it to have that chance...He moves anywhere he wants to go so that shouldn't be a problem...it's just eating and pooping I am worried about

.
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons

it should have been culled. Maybe I am a little harsh, but I wouldn't sit around waiting to see if he can eat or deficate. Thats a very serious twist/kink and it needs to be put down. Again, sorry to be so harsh.
-----
In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

I have a baggie in the freezer full of baby balls and pastels and albinos .....etc./...most never saw a shoebox.....some died on their own......they weren't all deformed.....but there had to be an issue......

.....it happens......you'll see.....and you'll hatch better......

......I had females give me a clutch with all Dairy Queen tail tips....(curl on top).......the next yearssss....never a kink or curled tail.....fed her better???.....these things happen no matter what we do......
-----
......

....ok.....

.....I have hatched hundreds.probably thousands of snakes......and I have seen almost every deformity you can think of......

I have never hatched a ball like that....?

it isn't just kinked..it is twisted.....I have kept corns with kinks because they ate and all and grew and were the only one in the litter that ate and had their mother's look........and now........5 years later.....it is still here and still worthless......want it?.......noone will.....it should have been put down and given to someone with cobra babies or coral snakes to feed........

trust me......I have actually killed tens of thousands of animals..if the people in India and other places are correct and all animals have a soul.......when I die I will be in really deep (......).....if they all decide to get revenge ...LOL......it'll look like Willard......tenfold.....

......better now than after it becones a day older.....

..freezing ....no.....and you won't like blunt force trauma....so...all you got left is small baggie and take all air out you can.....put into freezer...it will fall asleep and smother before it freezes ....if you get all the air out......

......all I got........
-----
......

I don't feel any animal is worthless...it may not be worth any money to sell...or breed...but a life isn't worthless...I'm not a "breeder"...I am not in this to make money...and I will probably keep every baby I produce...we have 21 snakes now...and will probably end up with many many more...maybe I am too softhearted...but i can't see myself putting that snake in a freezer..I am just going to let nature take it's course and see what happens...some of you may think I am being cruel for letting it live...well wouldn't it be just as cruel to kill it if there is a chance he could make it?...It is a life...and if everyone looked at things with deformities as disposable creatures then this world would be a sad sad place

If it eats its first meal ok and poops ok, he's probably got a fighting chance. I'd get some opinions from some bigger breeders like the Barkers if you can. I'm sure Dave or Tracy would love to help you and give you their opinion.
However, there may just come a time when it is best to put it out of its misery, but I don't agree with what everyone is telling you. It needs to at least be given a fighting chance. I think I'm a softie like you. I don't think I could do that to an animal. I just couldn't throw a snake in the freezer. I don't see how it can't be uncomfortable for the snake. How would you like to be bagged up with no air and then put in a freezer, doesn't sound like much fun does it?
But one concern I have is if he is in pain. I know that Ralph Davis has some kinked caramels but it is not as bad, and they do just fine.
Do what you feel is best. I can't make you do something. Just use your best judgement. If it seems to act like a normal baby, eats, drinks, and poops ok, then maybe he'll do alright. Let us know what you choose to do. Good Luck.

Funny how you mentioned Ralph Davis...I sent him an email with a pic of my kinked baby asking him what I should do...He may or may not respond...I just wanna give the little booger a chance

Not money or people with deformities, way different discussion. You are putting your hert before your head. Theres no way that he is going to be as healthy as the rest of the babies. How he is "feeling" but you can be sure that it's not like the rest.
With a twist like that, without a x-ray, you can't tell how severe it is. It could be fused and then nothing will pass.
-----
In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

I meant to say you can't know how he is "feeling". Also i can't spell heart.
-----
In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

I understood what ya meant...I am fluent in typonese..lol...If he doesn't seem to be thriving I will take him to a vet..But even with that twist he can move the lower part of his body..even take his tail and wrap it around my finger...you would think he couldn't by the looks of it

I was thinking along the same lines. I'd spend the money on an X-ray to be sure there's no internal damage.

Quig

Considering how twisted the body is, there is a good chance the 'internals' may be messed up to. Take it to a vet and have them X-ray it, then they will be able to see how badly the insides are.

The vet certainly can euthanize it for you as well.

Another thing, be careful you don't end up with more snakes than you can care for properly...its very easy to end up having far too many pets to keep. Best to start selling or stop breeding and be able to care for all your current pets effectively to ensure their health and well being. Before you end up with more than you can manage both time wise and financially.
-----
PHLdyPayne

Well we have over 150 rats...may be close to 200 by now...of all different sizes that we sell to pet stores and use as feeders...even have African Soft Fur for stubborn eaters (that is if we had any)...so the food supply is plenty...we have had our snakes a few years now and this kinked baby is the first problem we have had...the first clutch we have produced...the 21 snake count is including those babies...we have 11 sub adult to adult ball pythons...the 6 hatchlings one pastel colombian one nicaraguan and 2 viper boas...Next year if we decide to breed the balls again we will more than likely sell those babies...still undecided about selling these...the pet store offered us 20 bucks a piece for em...but hell she sells em for 89 bucks...HUGE profit on her part

why ask ......just tell us look,,.I hatched this and I will let it live

,.....I didn't mean worthless in monetary value....I meant in life value.......snakes are kept in boxes.....their lives pretty much suck now......hey , sleep ,wake ,work,clean,eat ,clean,feed,sleep,work,clean ,feed,eat,sleep..........my life suxx too....LOL...

anyways......you don't want to hear my opinions on what to humanely kill ......it covers all critters.....even some people .....

so...have fun......and let us know how it does........love to see a pic of it when it's 4 foot long (5 foot but twisted down to 4).....

-----
......

>>..that is a bad one......kill it fast and humanely.....
>>
>>....sorry...it happens for no reason at times
>>-----
>>......

I agree...make it quick so it doesn't suffer though.
-----
Charles Glaspie
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/Coldthumb
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=191635543

That is a pretty nasty kink. If it were mine I may give it a couple weeks to see if it can eat, drink, eliminate. Maybe it will survive. But I wouldn't let it suffer. If it looks like its suffering or going downhill, I'd off it.
-----
Snakes
Lizards
Tortoises
Dogs
Cats
Fish
Horses
Teenagers
DH who puts up with it all

Freezing is in no way humane, if you don't beleive me, put your arm in a bucket of ice water for 10 min and find out for yourself.
I completely agree with you that no life is worthless, but its your choice so make sure your sure with whatever you do. If it can't eat, digest and poo, I'd have it put down. But if it lives, it lives. if its in pain, its had that pain its whole life, since befor it hatched, and dosn't even know it.
If you decide to put it down, CO2 chambers are a humane way to do it and rodent breeders often have them. If you have the money, you can always have a vet do it.
This can't be easy for you and i hope I help rather than make it worse.
-----
www.freewebs.com/snakesandstuff
"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
1.2 Ball Pythons 1.1 Amazon Tree Boa 1.0 Corn Snake (and 9 eggs) 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 2.1.10 Bearded Dragons 2.1.2 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.1.4 Eastern Box Turtles 1.0 Northern Mockingbird 0.3 Chickens 2.0 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice and feeder insects and 5 Black Rat snake eggs

You will have to be responsible for this animal for the length of its lifetime if you allow it to live. That decision is up to you and how you feel about that responsibility. No one will be interested in buying it due to its deformity. It will be strictly a "PET" to you. If this is what you want, then allow it to live and nurture it well.

If you choose to put the kinked baby down, please use the freezer and NOT CO2.

CO2 does not work on reptiles because of their slow metabolism.

Many of you feed live rodents to reptiles and watch as the snake constricts and kills the rodent in a minute or two. I feel that is how the animal will pass in the freezer. It slows the metabolism way down and the animal goes to sleep.

Here is all of them in order hatched..Including the kinked one

My question to him...including pics of the snake

"Are the kinks too bad for it to survive?...I don't think I could kill it....If it has even the slightest chance of survival I want to give it that chance"

His reply

"yes they could survive.....you will be surprised"

So no culling going on here...If he is meant to live he will...Just gotta let the little fella try

Since you are going to give "the little booger" a chance I would recommend you start off feeding him smaller meals than you normally would feed a hatchling.

With the kink and the twist he may be able to eat just fine, but passing the prey through his digestive system could prove to be more problematic. Start small and slow (and realize that you may have to keep it at a "small and slow" pace for the duration of "Little Booger's" life).

He could survive, but he may also require a little extra care and attention than the other snakes in your collection.

However, if it does come to the point where you see he won't make it (I've worked with the elderly for nearly a decade and have seen people die from digestive issues - I wouldn't wish that type of agony on my worst enemy) - if it comes to that, bring him to a vet to be euthanized.

It may be cheaper to follow some of the other methods and for others it may be the most humane way to do it, but for you I would suggest allowing a vet do it. It may cost more, but it will be quick - which is one thing I think you may be looking for. Plus, with the vet, you will only have to make the decision, not perform the action.

I hope for your sake and Booger's (I know you just called him that, but I like the name too much to let it go) I hope he does well.

I posted pics of em...but no input on them yet...I think they are beautiful

You other hatchlings look beautiful. If you hadn't posted them as being clutchmates I would have thought they were from separate clutches. They are highly variable.

Post some pics of the sire and dam when you get a chance.

Here is mom (Lola) on her eggs

This is dad (Julius Squeezer) in his water bowl