Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My psychic prediction - this will turn into a hot topic.

Pulled out my Dopler fetal heart monitor tonight. Found baby heart tones on about half of my bred females including Daisey and Wilma. I say about half because some with due dates around two months out, not sure if I heard weak tones or just static. There are a few due in that time frame or later which I did not find baby heart tones on that look gravid. So I'm thinking with my level of experience working the dopler probe, that is more or less when I can first detect the baby heart beats. Not bad, right around 8 or 9 weeks!! I remember hearing/reading that 10 weeks before due was the earliest that faint tones could be heard.

Will be interesting to try again in a couple of weeks and see how things change with those females currently at the limit of my ability to detect baby heart beats. I fully expect some on the edge now would then be clear while others move into that maybe but not sure group.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Would be interesting if you could discern the same fetal heart tones in those not so sure females when they are further along.

I would imagine as you get better at the Doppler probe you will find the tones in females that you can not ascertain as gravid because of small litter or whatever reason they are not obviously gravid, like in my case for example with my BRB.

She may or may not be gravid. She is solid and very large but doesn't look gravid like a gravid boa usually looks.

You could start doing house calls.

>>My psychic prediction - this will turn into a hot topic.
>>
>>Pulled out my Dopler fetal heart monitor tonight. Found baby heart tones on about half of my bred females including Daisey and Wilma. I say about half because some with due dates around two months out, not sure if I heard weak tones or just static. There are a few due in that time frame or later which I did not find baby heart tones on that look gravid. So I'm thinking with my level of experience working the dopler probe, that is more or less when I can first detect the baby heart beats. Not bad, right around 8 or 9 weeks!! I remember hearing/reading that 10 weeks before due was the earliest that faint tones could be heard.
>>
>>Will be interesting to try again in a couple of weeks and see how things change with those females currently at the limit of my ability to detect baby heart beats. I fully expect some on the edge now would then be clear while others move into that maybe but not sure group.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Exactly, I plan on rechecking those that either were unsure or unable to detect a heartbeat. Also keeping records of when checked and results so I will be able to compare with actual birthdates and have a clearer picture of how long before birth I was able to detect heartbeats, even those unsure ones.

Hmmm, I could do house calls but only with a full expense account. I am easy but I am not cheap!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

That is cool stuff you are working on there n/p

>>Exactly, I plan on rechecking those that either were unsure or unable to detect a heartbeat. Also keeping records of when checked and results so I will be able to compare with actual birthdates and have a clearer picture of how long before birth I was able to detect heartbeats, even those unsure ones.
>>
>>Hmmm, I could do house calls but only with a full expense account. I am easy but I am not cheap!!
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Thanks, This year has been the first time I knew one was gravid with known to be alive babies before they were born. Obviously, I've had my share of preemies and stillborns so no guarantee of live healthy babies.

In the past I've typically had some that were "duh gravid", some "dunno, maybe??" And some "don't look like it". Not always correct if'n ya know what I mean. Quite often those maybes and even some I thought were not gravid ended up giving me smaller litters so go figure. Will be interesting to see how this additional info fits into actual viable litters. I believe the better intel will help identify small litters, but maybe not.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Thanks, This year has been the first time I knew one was gravid with known to be alive babies before they were born. Obviously, I've had my share of preemies and stillborns so no guarantee of live healthy babies.
>>
>>In the past I've typically had some that were "duh gravid", some "dunno, maybe??" And some "don't look like it". Not always correct if'n ya know what I mean. Quite often those maybes and even some I thought were not gravid ended up giving me smaller litters so go figure. Will be interesting to see how this additional info fits into actual viable litters. I believe the better intel will help identify small litters, but maybe not.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

think its a great project you have going using the doppler. Is it just a standard run of the mill human pregnancy one, or a special one designed for animals or reptiles?
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Human fetal heart monitor, can be bought on Ebay.

Kinda fun toy.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

fascinating, and can you actually hear individual babies hearts, do you think you will one day be able to work out how many are in a clutch? do you think there are any other uses for it snake wise? ie illness prevention etc, ie early warning signs of something. Could be quite a vitaltool in your breeding projects. Do you think, you will get to a point, where you may try to breed females again, if it looks like they are not gravid?

very interesting stuff
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

IMO being sound only you would not be able to "count" babies. Of course you could get an idea - lots/many/some/few/can't find any. I could see ut being used to check heart and lung functions, maybe digestive gurgling? Probably not.

With BRB's being a cyclic type breeder, if you miss the opportunity, I don't think you could tr5y again until the next season. I know I've read of WC taking some time (years) to aclimate to the cycle in the new location
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

are all but your breeding animals kept at the same temp year round? or do you adjust the temps and feeding schedule for all the snakes during the winter months? at moment, all mine are kept at same temps, all year around, but guess may/may not have to change when im looking into breeding, in a while
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Only the breeders (adults) go through temp cycling. All the neos are kept at same temp all year long.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Frank,
...I use a couple different types of dopplers at work (orthopedic nurse). I am using a fetal heart tone monitor here trying to diagnose gravidity in snakes this year. I have had limited success finding fetal heart tones very early but have found interesting different sounds at different locations around the adult snakes' hearts and lungs and also in their peripheral circulation. The fetal heart tones I found last month were too difficult to find to be able to move around the snakes' body to accurately discern more than a few of the individual babies. I do think that with practice we may be able to recognize sounds of pathological conditions such as heart damage or failure or respiratory congestion in larger snakes. I suspect that Dave's 3Mhz tranducer and my 2Mhz transducer are not ideal for the tasks we are attempting. Perhaps someone else will find a readily available and cheap Doppler with frequency better suited to the task.
Jeff

>>Would be interesting if you could discern the same fetal heart tones in those not so sure females when they are further along.
>>
>>I would imagine as you get better at the Doppler probe you will find the tones in females that you can not ascertain as gravid because of small litter or whatever reason they are not obviously gravid, like in my case for example with my BRB.
>>
>>She may or may not be gravid. She is solid and very large but doesn't look gravid like a gravid boa usually looks.
>>
>>You could start doing house calls.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>My psychic prediction - this will turn into a hot topic.
>>>>
>>>>Pulled out my Dopler fetal heart monitor tonight. Found baby heart tones on about half of my bred females including Daisey and Wilma. I say about half because some with due dates around two months out, not sure if I heard weak tones or just static. There are a few due in that time frame or later which I did not find baby heart tones on that look gravid. So I'm thinking with my level of experience working the dopler probe, that is more or less when I can first detect the baby heart beats. Not bad, right around 8 or 9 weeks!! I remember hearing/reading that 10 weeks before due was the earliest that faint tones could be heard.
>>>>
>>>>Will be interesting to try again in a couple of weeks and see how things change with those females currently at the limit of my ability to detect baby heart beats. I fully expect some on the edge now would then be clear while others move into that maybe but not sure group.
>>>>-----
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dave Colling
>>>>
>>>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>>>
>>>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>>>26.49 BRB
>>>>20.21 BCI
>>>>And those are only the breeders
>>>>
>>>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
>>
>>
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

I find this kind of thing interesting because it is soooo different then one typicaly hears dealing with gravid snakes.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Very interesting, I entered my results into my breedings page and clearly there was a pattern. The breedings list is in due date order. Females with earlier due dates had clear fetal heart tones. At a certain point, I was unsure since they were so faint, then could not ear any little heart beats at all.

There were a few exceptions but those were females that either do not look gravid or have secondary sheds that could indicate a later due date.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dr/Mr Colling,
...Did you find all the babies with similar heart rates around 60 BPM?
Jeff

>>Very interesting, I entered my results into my breedings page and clearly there was a pattern. The breedings list is in due date order. Females with earlier due dates had clear fetal heart tones. At a certain point, I was unsure since they were so faint, then could not ear any little heart beats at all.
>>
>>There were a few exceptions but those were females that either do not look gravid or have secondary sheds that could indicate a later due date.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Mr. Clark,

While I did not actually measure the rates, they were all similar tempo (around the 1 beat per second-ish rate) and clearly faster than that of the mothers. I did search out one of the moms heartbeats and wow was it slow in comparison.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats