Reptile & Amphibian Forums

After asking on this forum whether or not my new BIG girl is a three-toed or a Gulf Coast, I received a variety of responses that all seemed to point to two entirely different conclusions: 1) She is a very large three-toed; or, 2) She is indeed a Gulf Coast.

You may see the thread below for more details (the one about three-toeds marked -POPULAR-), but I would like to use a bit of an Achem approach here and simply eliminate a single possibility.

Please, Gulf Coast experts, help me out. Tell me exactly what would characteristics would HAVE to be included in order to make a turtle a Gulf Coast. In other words, state that if the turtle didn't have x_______x, it is definitely not a Gulf Coast. Those who have a great deal of knowledge feel free to place exact measurements, descriptions, and even weight!!!

Not only would this help me out, but I think it would help clarify this unique subspecies for those who have not had much contact with them. The pictures and decriptions online do not often differentiate very well between the Gulf Coast and three-toed variations that seem to appear. Are they really that similar in some geographic areas? Thanks!

~Jason Feulner

A picture would help. Gulf Coast box turtles, as well as three toeds come in various color variations 1) tan, 2) brown and 3) Black, as well as variations in between. Generally they have four toes on the back feet. I have never seen a three-toed gulf coast. Also they are generally larger in size, from around 6" to 8" in length, of course there could be smaller, and may even be larger sized adults. Also, they seem to have a broader head than the three toed box turtles.

I have some large three toed females, so don't go by size alone, but rather on the number of toes on the rear feet.

Hope this helps a little - post a pic.

I had two gulf coast females, one marked so similar to a three-toed you could mix them up if you couldn't compare size (she was over 6 inches by a bit), and the other that did not look like a three-toed. BOTH had three toes on their rear feet.

I would suggest a photo, too. Feel free to email it to me (nathan(at)aileo(dot)com), I will post it for you. So much of identifying some species is very slight differences that are hard to explain, but easy when you know what you are looking for.

Hi, don't know if this will help but, my Adult female Gulfcoasts are 835 grams and 795 grams. My adult gulfcoast male is 770 grams. My adult 3 toed male is 365 grams. You can get a postal scale at Walamart that weighs in grams for $19.99. Dawn
PS click the link below to see pictures of my gulfs and 3-toeds
Pictures of Gulfcoasts and 3-Toeds

In the book "North American Box Turtles-A Natural History" bY Kenneth Dodd there is an identification key on page
169.

Regarding Gulf Coast box turtles it says:

"Carapace pattern indistinct, uniformly unmarked to patterned, dark chocolaate to black in color; 4 toes on hind feet; head normally uniformly dark, often with large white patches laterally: large size; often greater than 200 mm carapace length; found along northern Gulf coast from Florida Panhandle to Louisiana; next to the Coahuilan box turtle, the most aquatic of box turtles, often found in or near marches.

Regarding Three-toed box turtles, it says:
Carapace tan or olive, sometimes with obscure pattern: orange or yellow spots on forelimbs and head, but some males have read heads; concavity of male shallow found in the central United States

Sometimes I think too much is made of trying to distiquish between a subspecies and an intergrade because I would imagine that among the Terrepene Carolina subspecies there are very few "pure bloods". Gulfs and three toeds come from areas that allow for intergradation. I have several three toeds and I have observed many in the wild and I have seen a huge variety regarding size, shape, color and pattern. I've got one that has flared marginal scutes unlike any of the others, some have bland shells, some have very strikingly patterned shells, they range in size from just under 5 inches to slightly over 6 inches and they range in weight from around 325 grams to 580 grams.
In my group it would appear the the males are running slightly smaller than the females. Most of mine have three toes on the back feet but I have at least one that has four toes on the back feet. Among the babies I have, some appear to have a very small, underdeveloped 4th toe and I know that at least one has a more fully developed 4th toe, although it is still smaller than the others. You're going to have to look at all the factors and make a good guess.
If your turtle has three toes, but is larger, I'd put more stock in the fact that it has three toes. Just like humans and other animals, turtles can vary in size.
If you can post a photo, it would help.