Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hatchling Desert Kingsnakes

market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=612719

Looks intergrade with Cal King to me.
-----
I decided my old sig was too big.

I would bet money that there was Cal King thrown into the mix. Pretty recently, too
-----
Diego

Not sure intergrade is the right word but I would have to say its been tainted lol.
-----
don't marry the cow when the milk is free when the milk drys up it's time for a new cow

Heres a similar wild example of that pattern(close). While many here think mainly in terms of intergrades, that type of thinking is not popular amoung biologists. The one I posted is a naturally expressed phenotype.

Heres are some reasons, At one time, there may have been gene flow from one part of the range to another. In most cases this is not true today or has been for a very long time. This is why subspecies are becoming a thing of the past.

Many western king populations are genetically isolated, and some are not.

The example I show here is similar to what you posted, and what you posted may be a natural phenotype or it may be a captive crossing of two different populations(mixed genotypes). There is no way to know that. From its head pattern, it appears to be an arizona kingsnake. Genetic testing could verify this/or not.

The example I posted is from south central arizona, and that locality is several hundred miles from any cal kings. So making it an intergrade would rare. Without question is has genotypic characters common to western getulus.

Something that should be considered is, habitat selection. Habitat selection is a key tool in understanding genotype and phenotype.

We all know that with kingsnakes, their pattern and color is extremely local specific. That is, there are hundreds even thousands of locals where the kingsnakes have something in common to eachother and not in common with kings from other populations. (local specific) which is what the one type of purists amoug captive collecting are seeking.

These populations have reasons for being unique. One is their habitat is different enough to require a slightly different color and pattern, and two, that color and pattern is within the genotype of their species. That is, they have to genetic ability to produce a color and pattern suitable to exsist in these slightly different habitats. Consider to accomplish this, these snakes have to already have an arsonal of color and patterns within their genotype. They do not invent new ones.

To invent a new character is to evolve into another species.

For instance, the individual I posted is as true genetically as any individual from any area. Its a expressed phenotype that is within the genotype of western kingsnakes, both locallly and regionally.

In the area my example is from, there a many pattern types that are expressed and this changes from time to time. The reason is, the habitat is very unstable. Its wet for years, its dry for years, its thickly vegetated for years, then that burns off and its barren for years. Each of these conditions require a slightly different phenotype to survive. This means that kingsnakes within this unstable area must have a genotype wide enough to stay in exsistance.

When color and pattern is so veriable, other characters are important in the naming of these animals, like scale count, and type, etc. In many cases if the cline(evolution of change is linear and related) is close enough, then the whole group of animals is considered one species, as with kings.

Then consider, cal king is a name applied to kingsnakes from California, and within the cal king getulus, there are many many expressed phenotypes. Bishop, san deigo, la habra, madona, etc etc etc are all cal kings but different phenotypes.

Then consider, Arizona kings are kings within arizona that also include a number of expressed phenotypes that are unique to arizona.

So to think of that individual as an intergrade is most likely a hobbyist way of thinking. It serves us in the captive hobby, but does not serve the understanding of wild kingsnakes(the natural biology)

To distinguish the source of an observer's knowledge (one can know about genotype by observing DNA; one can know about phenotype by observing outward appearance of an organism).
Genotype and phenotype are not always directly correlated. Some genes only express a given phenotype in certain environmental conditions. Conversely, some phenotypes could be the result of multiple genotypes. The genotype is commonly mixed up with the Phenotype which describes the end result of both the genetic and the environmental factors giving the observed expression (e.g. blue eyes, hair colour, or various hereditary diseases).

The variation they are capable of within a locale is also evident by the phenotype drift that happens in a few generations of captive breeding a locale, when they soon no longer look like their wild counterparts.

Anyway - with the snake that snake in the ad, what I noticed was not just the cal king features of the head, but the imperfect banding - such as half bands and Y bands - and an overall more banded look opposed to blotched look that in my mind (with no field exposure) that splendida has.
-----
I decided my old sig was too big.

Your first paragraph said,
The variation they are capable of within a locale is also evident by the phenotype drift that happens in a few generations of captive breeding a locale, when they soon no longer look like their wild counterparts.

What happens is captivity is not a drift of phenotype. As a wild phenotype is the product of genotype/s and the effect of selection. Consider selection is not just from predators, or enviornmental, its also disease linked as well.

In captivity we eliminate natural selection, and express more genotypic characters. Hence the proliferance of morphs/hybrids/crosses, there is nothing to control them(phenotypic pressures) in captivity.

Of course, the captive selection is non natural, as its more about selecting for appealing colors and patterns, or for mouse feeders, or behaviorally dull animals(can tolerate living in a box) cheers

looks like some tucson snakes I have seen
this one was from arizona city

-----

Doug L