Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I am new to the forum and wanted to introduce myself. I am currently a senior biology major/environmental studies minor at Ithaca College. This summer I am completing an internship at the Wetlands Institute in Stone Harbor, NJ, focusing on the conservation of the Diamondback Terrapin.

Some of the other interns and I recently went looking for box turtles and here are the results:

1st turtle of the day...

a pretty female

plastron shot

carapace

#2...a boy this time

Koulang, here as part of the Asian Scholar program, is an expert at locating box turtles

#3

Skip searches for turtles near a muddy stream bank

#4...another female

#5

there were lots of deer skulls around

#6...best for last

he's very handsome

Thanks for looking! let me know what you think

-Zach

Great pictures! That appears to be a relatively undisturbed chunk of habitat, judging from the number of turtles you located and the excellent condition of their shells. No evidence of car or lawn mower damage. I'd like to know your friend's secret for spotting them. I don't generally have as much luck spotting them in numbers when I go out in the woods, unless it has rained and they're right out in the open.

Beauties!

Basically after a lot of experience you get to know what types of microhabitats the box turtles like best, and you look in those areas. For example, we found about 5 turtles all around one cherry tree (the probably remember the location from previous years and return to it to) Also recognizing signs of turtle activity such as trails through leaf debris, etc...

Welcome to the forum. Nice pics, thanks for sharing. That last one is beautiful.

Wow, the last one is breathtakingly beautiful!
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Cliff

My Collection:
2.2 Eastern Box Turtles
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle
0.0.1 Desert Ornate Box Turtle
1.1.1 Redfoot Tortoises
2.1 Russian Tortoises
1.0.1 African Sulcata Tortoises
1.0 Burmese Python
0.1 Virginia Opossum
1.0 German Boxer
1.0 Pit Bull
1.1 Chihuahuas

Wow, great pics, thanks for sharing, that second pic looks a lot like my male eastern (pictured). I too love the diamondback and am raising a pair of CBBs that will hopefully breed next year, the male is about 6-7" ~350gr and the female is 9+" ~500gr now. I do not live anywhere near you or i might be helping with the preserving the diamonds of the marsh efforts I do keep good records if you need any captive data?

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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

The biggest one I've seen is maybe 6"-7". A friend of mine is raising a yearling 4-incher with his specticaled caiman.
-----
Cliff

My Collection:
2.2 Eastern Box Turtles
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle
0.0.1 Desert Ornate Box Turtle
1.1.1 Redfoot Tortoises
2.1 Russian Tortoises
1.0.1 African Sulcata Tortoises
1.0 Burmese Python
0.1 Virginia Opossum
1.0 German Boxer
1.0 Pit Bull
1.1 Chihuahuas

Males stay at 4-5 inches, and females commonly reach 9 inches.

Original poster - Great pictures! Thank you. It really makes me miss those Jersey box turtles. By far, the prettiest box turtles I have ever seen were observed behind my Grandparent's home in Cape May. That area is long destroyed, but I will never forget the amazing and plentiful box turtles that I found there. If anyone knows...it was directly adjacent to the Holiday City retirement village. Oh, and Cape May is right next to Stone Harbor for those who may wonder why I mention that.

Sorry my bad, I hadn't measured them in a while and I thought they had grown more, but I just went down and measured them and the male is actually still right at 5.25" and the female 7.75" maybe they are starting to top out. Sorry didn't mean to exaggerate, they have been eating like pigs and assumed they had grown more than that this summer, well hopfully they will breed next spring anyway.
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Hey Jeff,

What salinity do you keep your terrapins at?

Well I seemed to have misplaced my hydrometer, so I can't give you that in terms of specific gravity, but I really don't use it any more anyway, used to use it when I had salt water tanks. Anyway I use 1 tablespoon of Corralife marine salt(far better to use than simple NaCl) per 10 gal. My average tablespoon weighs about 14.4grams so per 37.58liters thats 3.8x10-4 times 100= 0.038% salinity, to answer your question.
I believe brackish is generally regarded as 0.05-3% and sea is 3-5%. So, basically I am running on the high end of fresh and just under the low end of brackish.
I use well established undergravel filter with weekly 80-90% water changes, so I don't need to worry about providing an additional sourse of fresh drinking water, if they are thirsty, which at the salinity I doubt they are, but if they are they can take a big drink while I am filling up the tank before adding the salt. This has worked well for me, no fungal problems and great health and growth. Actually I have always(20plusyrs) used marine salt even in my fresh water tanks at 1tbs/10-20gal, for the anti(bad)microbial properties as well as the benefits of the minerals and trace elements, which I believe are very benefitial to long term health. I have hard well water too, which is good for the diamonds water parameters, very bad for raising Discus though, thats why I used to breed mostly Cichlids. I also added some crushed shells and coral to the gravel substrate for buffering the salty hard water and as a calcium source.
Do you raise diamonds? what salinity?
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

My research project for this summer examined the growth rates of hatchling DBTs raised in various salinities. I found that terrapins in 25% sea water (8 ppt) grew significantly better than those raised in 50% sea water (16 ppt) and also better than those raised in fresh water.

So were those the only three values of the salinity variable that you looked at? Let see 50% sea water would be about 1.75-1.6% salt and the 25% sea water would be~ .875-.8% and I am running about half of that again. Did you provide the ones raised in the 50% sea salt access to fresh water for drinking? Otherwise dehydration might be a contributing factor to their decressed growth, and also did you see fungal problems in the ones in fresh, just curious.
-----
Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Yes, those were the only values I tested here. I agree that it would be interesting to look at a wider range of salinities. I chose 25% sea water because some literature has reported optimal growth at that concentration. As for dehydration, the experimental tubs are maintained outside and are exposed to rain, which is how terrapins get fresh water naturally. (The tubs are changed daily to maintain the respective salinities). Food also provides some hydration. I did not see any fungal growth in the freshwater. In both the freshwater tub and the 50% seawater tub there were some individuals that just did not grow at all, regardless of the fact that they were eating. This was not observed in any of the turtles in 25% seawater.

It is important to note that the salinity of the water in the marsh right around where the eggs are laid, and where the hatchlings emerge, is consistently around 32 ppt (sea water). This raises the question as to whether the hatchlings seek out fresher water, and if so where are they going? These would be good topics for future research...I am in the process of putting together a powerpoint presentation summarizing the results (which will be presented at a public meeting here on Aug. 7). I can send you the powerpoint file if you're interested.

-Zach

Have you considered that maybe the hatchlings hide out in little "puddle ponds" nearby that would be lower salinity, then as young adults move into bigger waters with higher salt with the knowledge of how to get fresh water in puddles and "puddle ponds" when it rains, these are just ideas as I have never set foot in their natural habitat myself, nor done the field work that you are doing, I admire your work, and yes I would very much like to see a copy of your presentation, best of luck to you. Please drop me an email at jbenfer@uhl.uiowa.edu
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Jeff,

I have considered that possibility. It turns out that the salinity of the surrounding "ponds" is actually quit a bit higher than in the creeks (I measured 44 ppt last week)....so the question remains as to where they go. What is known is that juveniles and adults are much less prone to dehydration compared to hatchlings. One interesting observation - I've found many hatchlings and even juveniles in storm drains along the road that drain into the marsh. I took a water sample and found it to be fresh water...

Interesting, so makes sense that the ponds actually evaporate sea the sea water that is washed in and then trap or concentrate salt, but the storm drainages are fresh from rain, I guess that is more what I was thinking with my term "puddle pond" for lack of a better term, just some little area near a creek or low area that would collect rain water. So that would then raise the question which you are probably already looking at: what is the food source? bugs, tadpoles, shrimp, baby fish, dead fish? Hey Zach, we are so off-topic on this forum at this point, why don't you send me an email, and let's keep in touch.
-----
Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

>>Have you considered that maybe the hatchlings hide out in little "puddle ponds" nearby that would be lower salinity, then as young adults move into bigger waters with higher salt

Diamondbacks are doing that on Hatteras Island, NC. Last time I was there(late '05) I was finding them in ditches/small ponds about 200-300 feet from the main beach all the time. I caught about 10 in one ditch only about three feet deep. If you're anywhere around that area(you might have posted a few places down) you might want to try checking out the population there.
-----
Cliff

My Collection:
0.1 Florida Box Turtle
2.2 Eastern Box Turtles
1.1 Ornate Box Turtle
0.0.1 Desert Ornate Box Turtle
1.1.1 Redfoot Tortoises
2.1 Russian Tortoises
1.0.1 African Sulcata Tortoises
1.0 Burmese Python
0.1 Virginia Opossum
1.0 German Boxer
1.0 Pit Bull
1.1 Chihuahuas