Reptile & Amphibian Forums

which one do you prefer, Is one better than the other?

Hi,
Hi,

it´s difficult to say what you should prefer!
The american Leathebacks are totaly diffrent to the italian ones,
the US trait is simple recessive( Phantom Dragon line, you need two animals to get leathers and there is no supertrait who would be dominant) and the ital. trait co dominant( one animal fifty percent of the clutch from them are also leathers, wich have a supertrait, dominant Silks). The italian line is the oldest and the cleanest line at Moment, she has the most "evolution", but they are smaller then the american animals( AC-line). This line is very huge and very strog strong.
So when you like to breed leathers it´s easier to take the ital.
trait, but when you look after a pet it´s not very important.
And there are the american Smoothies (Ac-line Leathers)too?!
So it´only your decision!))

Greetz from Bavaria

Ralf

thanks, Im going with the italian line, i want the codominant for future projects.

the american AC line is co-dominant as well and they also produce silkbacks.

How can i get ahold of AC to see if they have any available?

Hi,

So Eric your right, but they aren´t so clean at the moment, you
know i have one AC line leather at my home and it´s total diffrent to alessandros line.I think he goes right with the decision to the ital. line, ofcourse they are from the first generation with color and he become the best crosses like Hypo Leathers or Translucent leathers with het Hypo and those. To your Question i can say, you should talk about with randy from alphadragonz or Josh from Phantom, any of this guys have the most lines of leatherbacks available, i have seen caliente have also AC line leathers or claico dragons have also interessting italian leather morphs.

I hope i could help....

Greetz

Ralf

Sorry,

but the breeder is named calico Dragons!))

Greetz

Hi Ralf I know that the italian leathers are cleaner then the leather you have. But i think the american smooth line is more intresting to breed with becouse they are bigger and i think they will get cleaner in a couple year you can see that the italian leather get cleaner every year as wel. i am olso very intrested to see what happend when you do American smooth x italian leath i wanna know if there come out some silky's

@StingrayDragons i wil email you the email adres of AC.

Hello Everybody,
Amy here from CalicoDragons.com I work mainly with the Italian line because we have a much cleaner line then any out there at this point in time. Also our line came to us with great color. I recently produced Hypo Leatherbacks het trans from my Yellow Leatherback het hypo male and my HypoTrans female and we popped out 3! I know of Anna’s line from AC and she has very nice animals with great size but I would personally need more color infused before I purchased one. Also our Italian line gets just as large as any other line out there. I think there is some confusion on that. The original dragons that were imported in were on the med. side because breeders in Europe do not have crickets and only keep there animals on worms. Since we have outcrosses those dragons to US blood to introduce the Hypo and Translucent genes all of the offspring have been large and healthy dragons. Same goes for all of the offspring I have produced here from my male. Dachiu has eggs incubating right now from AC line leathers to Italian line leathers and we will know in another 2 or 3 months if the two lines are compactable. If they are then we will have silkbacks in the market much sooner. For those of us who plan to breed for them. If it is not the value of the Italian line will only go up or stabilize while AC will have to catch up to the Hypo and Trans genes we are already working with.

-Amy

www.CalicoDragons.com

thanks for the email for AC, has anyone gotten a yellow italian leather het for hypo/trans X belgian double het before and does anyone know what that cross looks like when its an adult? Because as of right now i think im getting the female that dachiu has on there availablity list. what do you guys think?

Hey Folks,

very good conversation here!))

So Amy thats very false information!
Eric is right we in europe have a very good varations of food
i think it´s so good as yours in the US. How much is your Leather 500 or? But that´s not big for a bearded in my opinion Vittieps are optimum size with 22-24 inches and 600-800 gramms.
My codom. Smoothie het Hypo from Randy is about 21 inches and 550 grams at 10 month age and my Leather is only 450 at two Years of age.
But you´re right they grow much better when they breed with great Bloodlines.
Yes Eric you´re right when you say the codom. Smoothies are more interesting to breed with but when he bought his first line
Leathers he should bought the most proven one i think!

So Kurt it´s a very sweety at dachiu page, but only you can know it´s the right for you, all i can say it would be very interesting to breed this type of morph. The best decision would be to buy two diffrent lines!)

Greetz to all....

Ralf

Ralf, what do you think when that leather is old enough breeding her to my citrus tiger from DragginTails I want to make some bright yellow and blue leathers because for one i havent seen any like that yet, and two i really like blue dragons. the other thought is to breed it with a hypo trans to get some hypo trans leathers. Undecided still.

In reply to Ralf,
I was told directly by Dachiu that the breeder we received our leathers from had only kept them on worms and in his part of Europe they could only get worms and no crickets as a staple for there dragons. I was not implying that every single country in Europe couldn't manage to get and breed crickets just that our original line did come in a bit smaller then most dragons because the breeder we worked with did only keep his collection(at the time) on worms of various types. That was the information I was given over a year ago when I first purchased my leatherback when I asked the question "why is his father a smaller sized individual?" Hope I cleared things up.
-Amy

Stingray..I think that sounds really nice. Orlando has a white hypotrans male from Josh and is breeding his 07 citrus tiger female that is het for hypo..I bet those will be pretty..his female is electric yellow and blue and the male is chalk colored. I have asked Shamrock to make us some citrus tiger leathers off of the het hypo yellow italian female and he is on the job. He is het hypo so I hope we get some hypos that are leathers. Tammy@Draggintails

yea that would be really nice Tammy, and thanks for the my citrus tiger male, i cant wait for him to shed again cuz everytime he sheds he just gets more and more better looking, so is the hypo tang hes the best looking hypo tang ive seen yet, bright yellow. Ill post some pics as soon as i get a power cord for my mac cuz the dog chewed the cord! so just keep an eye on this thread

Hi Amy

i dont know how you come on the information that we in europe only give dragons worms and we dont have crickets. that is realy bull[bleep] it is realy bad to give dragons only worms. we give our dragons crickets, roaches, grasshoppers and different kind of worms.

As I said in the previous reply I did phase the sentence wrong and corrected what I had meant to say. Hope that clears things up and we can get back on to the topic of Leatherbacks.
-Amy

He,

sorry but i have sleep a little bit!))

To Kurt, it will be a cool Breed with the Citrus Tiger line
from Draggintails, this line is very dominant with the color.
I think it can work in the first generation that you get out a Dragon with good Blue and Leather. My Favorite will be a solid
withe Hypotranslucent, but there will be a little bit breeding
work before i can hold it in my Hands.)
So i hope you get your dream dragon, but it´s not so difficult
in the US!)

To Amy, so i don´t know that you have it also from a Breeder
friend, but it´s like eric and i say. But i know that alessandro
not only feeds worms, he feeds cockroaches too. And to the Cricket who we don´t have in europe, all crickets all over the world are a not really good food for Beardeds, they be only for water ofcourse a cricket is 95% Water! I prefer Grasshoppers
and cockroaches, that´s good food! So say to Rob and Vicky that
is not right what they tell about us europeans.
So i breed "not" with Dachiu lines ofcourse they are to small for me too, i like BIG monsters!)) So amy do you have nothing available for Kurt?, that would be great!)

Greetz

Ralf

Well right now I bred my Yellow Italian Leatherback het Hypo to my Super Yellow female and made some very nice Yellow Leatherbacks that are all possible hets for Hypo. We have a few left from the first clutch and they are right at 9 weeks old. I did produce the Hypo Leatherbacks but only hit the odds on 3 of them. One I am holding back and the other 2 females are pre-sold. I don't want anybody to bash Rob and Vickie maybe they were mis-informed or I didn't hear correctly who's to say but I am not on here to point figures. All I know is I asked about the size and was told no crickets were being used at that time. Maybe he did do worms and roaches I don't know but to my knowlegde that was the reason for the orginals sizes. Right know though all my babies are big and happy and I couldn't be happier with them all. The leatherback I bought a year ago from Dachiu was breeding by the time he hit 10 months old and was also at 17" he has since then grown a bit more and has bred a bunch more. So to make a long story very short the Italian lines we are working with now are not small by any means. I will have some eggs hatching shortly as well from my Leatherback het hypo male to my Marketed Lucy female. I can't wait to see how those babies turn out. I personally love the solid white lucys and would love to see a solid white leatherback as well. I will post pictures of them as soon as they hatch. In about another months or so.
-Amy
Calico Dragons

Amy,
you said that you have a few leathers left from that clutch? how much are you asking for them? you can email the answer to me if youd like but i really want the most yellowish leather i can possibly get.
Kurt
StingrayDragons

yea thanks ralf, i hope i come out with the nicest looking leatherback possible, see though what i like about the dachiu line is that its het for hypo and trans. so i can easily make some awesome dragons with it.
Kurt
StingrayDragons

hi Kurt,

i have seen you have problems to mail josh, he´s very
busy at moment i think, like all bearded Breeders this days!)
There are many hatchling to clean and feed!)) Give him some
moments....
And you are right there is in the italian line a spreading
who clean the animals are, my opinion i that it has to do
with the other line you breed the leather to.
My breeding to a very unrelated markted Leuzistic was very lucky
there are all animals with very very clean scaling. A friend of me have the same breeding with a Hypo line and a leather and he has a lot of spreading in his clutch, some very good , some good and some with many tubercles. So you can say that´s not so easy to say that the italian line will be the best line at all she´s only the most stable and known line at he moment. I think the
animals from Amy are beatiful, so when you can get one of her
it will be the right thing for your Citrus Tiger breeding and a
awsome HypoTrans Project.

I wish you much succses to find the right...

Greetz

Ralf

Thanks Ralf i appreciate your help and hopefully amy or josh can help me out really soon...

Hi Kurt, you can e-mail me at:jdovenbarger@cox.net. The Italian leather adults that I have are huge. They also have a very nice structure to them. The leathers from the AC line are also nice, don't get me wrong. So far it seems like the italian leathers are smoother. I think after a few generations of selective breeding with the AC line, they will be just as smooth as the italian leathers. As with any new mutation, some don't start off 100% perfect. Josh

thanks Josh, I sent an email your way

Hi there,

I just wanted to clear up that we do not have the AC Line ( believe it or not LOL), We have a Line for a hobby breeder in Hollywood and we have the Phantom Leather lines. I will be looking to add some of Anna's line to cross with what we have now. I do have some from Randy that I think have an AC line cross but there were not ready yet this year.

Hi,

So you mean Pancake alright, what type is she recessive or codom.?
I think it´s cool that she is no AC-Line!
So please forgive me for the misstake!)

Thank and Greetz

Ralf

No problem, I just was clearing things up LOL

Pancake Is a Male Phantom LeatherBack Double Het, It seems so far he is a recessive leatherback, Its very exciting, I have gotten a huge mix out crazy dragons out of him!

I also have Dart who I believe is a co-dominate because he throws 50% Leathers paired with normal female. BUT I should not really call it that until I have proved him out with another to create a superform ( silkback) ( working on that) He is not AC Lines or Phantom Lines, I got him from a Hobby breeder in Hollywood a while back.

Heidi