Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was looking at some clowns and the head looks really weird to me. However, I can't tell if it is just the weird pattern or if it is misshaped in some way (like the cinnamon heads). Anyway, I think I want to work with them and I was wondering if there are any defects surrounding this mutation (i.e. spiders=wobble, cinnamons=duck bill, etc.).
Thanks!

I have never heard of anything wrong with them....but there very well may be...Many people try not to make that big of a deal about defects...especially when the morph is thousands of dollars....

One the Cinnamons...I was always under the impression it was just the Supers that had the Duckbilling....and from what I thought....it was only early on...when closely related CinnxCinn was bred to make supers....I heard that breeding CinnxBlack Pastel produced normal Supers (meaning no duckbilling)...But I don't know...

I just saw a post a few days ago...showing a CinnxCinn Super...that seemed to have a perfect head...maybe they are outcrossed enough that the duck billing is not an issue anymore??...I don't know..

It seems the more $$$ is involved the more quite people tend to be...once the morph gets to the $500 range ....and more people start working with them....little quirks and defects start to get talked about more....
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

They still have the duckbill. See the above post about the albino super black pastel.

Wouldn't you have to keep siblings and breed them back together to produce the Albino Super Cinnamon?...I would think they bred a Black Pastel to an Albino, then kept obviously all the black pastels back from that pairing as they are het albino, and then bred those together to produce an albino Super...right?

So I would imagine again...its breeding to closely related genetic defects which is causing the duckbilling...I wonder how many people have bred a CinnxBlack Pastel...pairings that are as fare away genetic wise as possible? do those still produce the duckbilling?

I was always under the impression, that when breeding back for certain genetic defects...such as Albino...that sometimes other defects can arise...such as no eyes,ect..Especially when dealing with a Heterozgous trait...

I really don't know...I was hoping that it was caused by breeding to closely related specimens...such as siblings...and I was hoping by maybe doing a Cinnamon x Black Pastel it would eleminate that duckbilling....if thats not the case...then I might have to rethink my plans...as I don't want to produce duckbilled Balls...
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

Yes you would keep the sibs and breed them together. I have not seen a perfectly normal super cinny or black pastel. All the ones i have seen have some facial deformities. Also some people have had kinking problems with them similar to caramel albinos. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has tried some really outcrossed pairings or any cinny X black pastel pairings and had "normal" looking supers.

I would love to hear about those pairings, I was always under the impression that by doing the Black Pastel x Cinnamon that everything was ok...but now that I think about it...those pairings have been done...cause someone has found out that they are compatable...right? So you would think that if by doing that pairing...and a perfectly normal Super was produced they would be spreading the word...but I havn't and or can't find anything saying thats its better to do so....

Does anyone have a Perfectly Normal faced Super? I would love to see it, and now how it was produced...
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

One of the big breeders recently sold one, that was from a cinny/black pastel pairing. looked normal to me.

Pitoon

When you say Normal...you mean NOT Duckbilled right?...just making sure....Like I said...I specifically got a Black Pastel and a Cinnamon in hope of trying for the Super Version but without the Duckbilling...I always thought that the duckbilling was a result of breeding to closely related siblings or something...Cause I don't want to breed for one if they ALL have that DuckBilling action going on....that would suck.
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

Duck bills come in cinnys, blacks, supers. I think it's more like the kink and the wobble - a random trait associated with the morph - rather than an inbreeding issue.

We'll see.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

some cinnys have it, some B-pastels have it........ it's just part of that particular morph

Pitoon

ha ha ha