Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all,

This will be long, but I trust you're patient.

Just got my first BRB 2 days ago, and have been getting it well established. My issue is this: the recommended temperatures for BRBs seem to be all over the map. R. D. Bartlett's book "Rainbow Boas and Neotropical Tree Boas" recommends 85-90 days, 78-82 nights. Jeff Clark's care sheet lists near 80, not over 85, w/70% Humidity. Gary Ruplinger recommends 85 day time high, 75 night time low, never above 90, 75-80%H. An anonymously authored care sheet from newenglandreptile.com lists basking spot of 85, ambient 75-80, never over 88, 70%H. LLL Reptile's sheet lists 85-90 days, 75-80 nights, 70H. I read a care sheet here which I believe said just over 70 degrees, Humidity 90%+.

So, the range is 70-90, with different people warning both ends of that can be fatal, and the agreement seems to be about low 80s, Humidity always above 70%, as high as 95ish? That seems strange to me.

I already own a WC San Diego Gopher snake & a CB albino banded Cal King. They're pretty easy to manage here in San Diego, and i've learned to react to what the snake shows it wants.

So, so far, while I'm awake the BRB is staying completely away from the hot end of its enclosure, which is about 85ish, and is staying in its humidity box, which is near the cool end, probably in the mid-high 70s. Humidity is proving more manageable than i had thought, easily staying 83-93%. But the snake is consistently in its moss box, though that may be just because its the best cool hiding spot. While i'd like to know what gives with that temperature range, the current plan is to try to respond to the snake.

Other loose ends:
-The heating elements i have available are: Lamp w/ 60 watt daylight and 50 watt night bulbs, and an UTH. What should I be using, just the lamps, just the UTH, both, neither?
-The snake has not been sexed, but was noticably the largest of its litter (20% or so larger than the others) and is, weeks in, 23" already. It's bigger than my yearling Cal King. It also has no noticable spurs. Is that a decent indication of it being female? I don't plan to breed, so it's not vital, but I gotta pick a name!
-What gives with the decimal system you guys use? I haven't had much of a need for a resource with the other two snakes before, but have been reading this forum the last 2 days. Just wondering.

This seems like a wonderful resource community, so I'm confident I'll get some great responses. Thanks a lot.

Pictures/Names of all the animals on request- maybe next post, if i figure out how to do pictures?

Christopher,
....I have been keeping Rainbow Boias longer than any of them other people writing caresheets and have produced around 1500 babies. What I have seen is that BRBs can do well in a cage kept constantly for months in the 60s. A couple years ago I cooled my little ones down with the adults for the winter and they stayed below 70 for weeks on end and they ate, digested and grew through that time just fine. OTOH if you have a cage with the hot end in the high 80s and cool end in the mid 70s the snake will do fine but will spend most of the time in the cooler part of the cage. Kind of like what you are seeing with your snake. IMO warming the hot end of the cage above 85 effectively shuts that area off to the snake for much of the time. Over the years I have heard hundreds of experienced snake keepers tell about how BRBs did not do well and died soon after they got them. I suspect they had their cages in the 80s and 90s like for their Ball Pythons and Boa Constrictors. Because of this I intentionally err a little bit on the cool side.
....Your choice on which heater to use is easy. If your snake room stays in the 70s all the time you need no heater. If it gets colder than that use the undertank heater with a proportional thermostat to keep if from being too hot. If the room temperature does not vary too much you can use a simple cheap dimmer rather than an expensive thermostat. Overhead lights are totally wrong for these very secretive nocturnal snakes. BTW, I have been a big fan of Dick Bartlett and his writings on snakes for decades but his Rainbow Boa book is a stinker IMHO. Spurs on baby BRBs are VERY small. Males get bigger spurs than females as they grow up.
....1.2.7 means one male two females and seven unsexed.
Jeff

>>Hey all,
>>
>>This will be long, but I trust you're patient.
>>
>>Just got my first BRB 2 days ago, and have been getting it well established. My issue is this: the recommended temperatures for BRBs seem to be all over the map. R. D. Bartlett's book "Rainbow Boas and Neotropical Tree Boas" recommends 85-90 days, 78-82 nights. Jeff Clark's care sheet lists near 80, not over 85, w/70% Humidity. Gary Ruplinger recommends 85 day time high, 75 night time low, never above 90, 75-80%H. An anonymously authored care sheet from newenglandreptile.com lists basking spot of 85, ambient 75-80, never over 88, 70%H. LLL Reptile's sheet lists 85-90 days, 75-80 nights, 70H. I read a care sheet here which I believe said just over 70 degrees, Humidity 90% .
>>
>>So, the range is 70-90, with different people warning both ends of that can be fatal, and the agreement seems to be about low 80s, Humidity always above 70%, as high as 95ish? That seems strange to me.
>>
>>I already own a WC San Diego Gopher snake & a CB albino banded Cal King. They're pretty easy to manage here in San Diego, and i've learned to react to what the snake shows it wants.
>>
>>So, so far, while I'm awake the BRB is staying completely away from the hot end of its enclosure, which is about 85ish, and is staying in its humidity box, which is near the cool end, probably in the mid-high 70s. Humidity is proving more manageable than i had thought, easily staying 83-93%. But the snake is consistently in its moss box, though that may be just because its the best cool hiding spot. While i'd like to know what gives with that temperature range, the current plan is to try to respond to the snake.
>>
>>Other loose ends:
>>-The heating elements i have available are: Lamp w/ 60 watt daylight and 50 watt night bulbs, and an UTH. What should I be using, just the lamps, just the UTH, both, neither?
>>-The snake has not been sexed, but was noticably the largest of its litter (20% or so larger than the others) and is, weeks in, 23" already. It's bigger than my yearling Cal King. It also has no noticable spurs. Is that a decent indication of it being female? I don't plan to breed, so it's not vital, but I gotta pick a name!
>>-What gives with the decimal system you guys use? I haven't had much of a need for a resource with the other two snakes before, but have been reading this forum the last 2 days. Just wondering.
>>
>>This seems like a wonderful resource community, so I'm confident I'll get some great responses. Thanks a lot.
>>
>>Pictures/Names of all the animals on request- maybe next post, if i figure out how to do pictures?

Thanks Jeff, your experience is invaluable. I'll move down the temperature in the enclosure, especially the warm end, and see how it responds. I'll move to exclusively using the UTH, that should be plenty. It seems a little strange to not have to do anything but humidify for a Brazilian jungle animal here in San Diego, but we'll see how it goes.

If it's spending most of it's time in the moss box, should i start striving to keep the humidity up over 90% all the time, despite the limited ventilation this would require, and the overall soggyness it would probably cause?

Second, third, and more opinions from others are of course always appreciated. Thanks a lot everybody. Also, got some pictures of the (small) collection up at http://cdohna.googlepages.com/pets

My BRB has always spent most of his time in his hides (damp or not)---so much so that my husband complained the snake was a "bust" because he rarely sees Loki moving about. I've concluded he's just much shyer than my other snakes (and of course being nocturnal, he's rarely up when we are). My point is that just because your BRB is always in the moss box doesn't mean your humidity is too low. It may simply be that he feels more secure staying hidden!

>>If it's spending most of it's time in the moss box, should i start striving to keep the humidity up over 90% all the time, despite the limited ventilation this would require, and the overall soggyness it would probably cause?
>>
>>Second, third, and more opinions from others are of course always appreciated. Thanks a lot everybody. Also, got some pictures of the (small) collection up at http://cdohna.googlepages.com/pets
-----
Renee
1.0 BRB (Loki)
2.0 amel & anery corns (Foxfire & Daguerre)
0.1 blood python (Duchess, arriving later this month)
1.1 Cats (Nightshade & Cuzzy)

Great information on temperatures!

I agree with you about the Bartlett book. I bought it when I first got Loki and was disappointed. Your care sheet and Dave's give much better and more thorough information. One of you should write a book on Rainbow Boas. (Aren't they getting popular enough to deserve their own tome?) Let me know if you need a co-writer (writing is what I do for a living).

>>Christopher,
>>....I have been keeping Rainbow Boias longer than any of them other people writing caresheets and have produced around 1500 babies. What I have seen is that BRBs can do well in a cage kept constantly for months in the 60s. A couple years ago I cooled my little ones down with the adults for the winter and they stayed below 70 for weeks on end and they ate, digested and grew through that time just fine. OTOH if you have a cage with the hot end in the high 80s and cool end in the mid 70s the snake will do fine but will spend most of the time in the cooler part of the cage. Kind of like what you are seeing with your snake. IMO warming the hot end of the cage above 85 effectively shuts that area off to the snake for much of the time. Over the years I have heard hundreds of experienced snake keepers tell about how BRBs did not do well and died soon after they got them. I suspect they had their cages in the 80s and 90s like for their Ball Pythons and Boa Constrictors. Because of this I intentionally err a little bit on the cool side.
>>....Your choice on which heater to use is easy. If your snake room stays in the 70s all the time you need no heater. If it gets colder than that use the undertank heater with a proportional thermostat to keep if from being too hot. If the room temperature does not vary too much you can use a simple cheap dimmer rather than an expensive thermostat. Overhead lights are totally wrong for these very secretive nocturnal snakes. BTW, I have been a big fan of Dick Bartlett and his writings on snakes for decades but his Rainbow Boa book is a stinker IMHO. Spurs on baby BRBs are VERY small. Males get bigger spurs than females as they grow up.
>>....1.2.7 means one male two females and seven unsexed.
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Hey all,
>>>>
>>>>This will be long, but I trust you're patient.
>>>>
>>>>Just got my first BRB 2 days ago, and have been getting it well established. My issue is this: the recommended temperatures for BRBs seem to be all over the map. R. D. Bartlett's book "Rainbow Boas and Neotropical Tree Boas" recommends 85-90 days, 78-82 nights. Jeff Clark's care sheet lists near 80, not over 85, w/70% Humidity. Gary Ruplinger recommends 85 day time high, 75 night time low, never above 90, 75-80%H. An anonymously authored care sheet from newenglandreptile.com lists basking spot of 85, ambient 75-80, never over 88, 70%H. LLL Reptile's sheet lists 85-90 days, 75-80 nights, 70H. I read a care sheet here which I believe said just over 70 degrees, Humidity 90% .
>>>>
>>>>So, the range is 70-90, with different people warning both ends of that can be fatal, and the agreement seems to be about low 80s, Humidity always above 70%, as high as 95ish? That seems strange to me.
>>>>
>>>>I already own a WC San Diego Gopher snake & a CB albino banded Cal King. They're pretty easy to manage here in San Diego, and i've learned to react to what the snake shows it wants.
>>>>
>>>>So, so far, while I'm awake the BRB is staying completely away from the hot end of its enclosure, which is about 85ish, and is staying in its humidity box, which is near the cool end, probably in the mid-high 70s. Humidity is proving more manageable than i had thought, easily staying 83-93%. But the snake is consistently in its moss box, though that may be just because its the best cool hiding spot. While i'd like to know what gives with that temperature range, the current plan is to try to respond to the snake.
>>>>
>>>>Other loose ends:
>>>>-The heating elements i have available are: Lamp w/ 60 watt daylight and 50 watt night bulbs, and an UTH. What should I be using, just the lamps, just the UTH, both, neither?
>>>>-The snake has not been sexed, but was noticably the largest of its litter (20% or so larger than the others) and is, weeks in, 23" already. It's bigger than my yearling Cal King. It also has no noticable spurs. Is that a decent indication of it being female? I don't plan to breed, so it's not vital, but I gotta pick a name!
>>>>-What gives with the decimal system you guys use? I haven't had much of a need for a resource with the other two snakes before, but have been reading this forum the last 2 days. Just wondering.
>>>>
>>>>This seems like a wonderful resource community, so I'm confident I'll get some great responses. Thanks a lot.
>>>>
>>>>Pictures/Names of all the animals on request- maybe next post, if i figure out how to do pictures?
-----
Renee
1.0 BRB (Loki)
2.0 amel & anery corns (Foxfire & Daguerre)
0.1 blood python (Duchess, arriving later this month)
1.1 Cats (Nightshade & Cuzzy)

So I did a little experiment yesterday, and it seems to prove Renee right, that she just likes to hide. I moved the moss to a different hide box which is a little bit less secure, and she still seems to prefer the more secure box, with a very small opening on the front. So, seems like everything is okay with humidity.

Following Jeff's advice, it being consistently in the mid-70s here in SD, Ive removed all heating elements, and she seems so far to be doing fine. Her first feeding with me is later tonight, so we'll see how she does digesting after that. I'm a little excited.

I don't have much experience with snake books, but I will say that my Kingsnake book by David Perlowin seems better than Bartlett's BRB/TB effort.

I'll third a RB only book, and funny enough, I'm a professional editor. So what if it's for an academic philosophy journal? Telling people you're an editor causes a lot less questions than telling them you're a philosopher.

Thanks again folks! Now to try some pictures

-----
cdohna.googlepages.com
1.0.0 WC SD Gopher Snake, Max
1.0.0 CB Albino Banded Cal King, Manny
0.1.0 BRB, Mucalinda

LOL, boy that's huge. Sorry. Until I figure out how to make them smaller, I'll just direct you to the pics hosted elsewhere:
Pics

-----
cdohna.googlepages.com
1.0.0 WC SD Gopher Snake, Max
1.0.0 CB Albino Banded Cal King, Manny
0.1.0 BRB, Mucalinda

You have a fine handful of snakes there! I like your imaginative choice of names. I just have three
snakes too, but am waiting for a new baby blood python (which may be my last snake, according to my husband).

>>LOL, boy that's huge. Sorry. Until I figure out how to make them smaller, I'll just direct you to the pics hosted elsewhere:
>>Pics
>>
>>-----
>>cdohna.googlepages.com
>>1.0.0 WC SD Gopher Snake, Max
>>1.0.0 CB Albino Banded Cal King, Manny
>>0.1.0 BRB, Mucalinda

-----
Renee
1.0 BRB (Loki)
2.0 amel & anery corns (Foxfire & Daguerre)
0.1 blood python (Duchess, arriving later this month)
1.1 Cats (Nightshade & Cuzzy)