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I am still reallt stumped on this clutch.I really thought that my tri-color male was a hypo for sure.But when bred to my Falcon extreme female I only got one hypo out of 5 hatched.I am sure maybe if 10 would have hatched I would have a better idea but still,four normals and one hypo? that just indicates to me that my male is only het hypo so what is he? and what is this hypo? is it a falcon extreme or a mega extreme or what???
I thought I would put some things to rest with this breeding and all I really did was raise more questions.
The hypo is a male and there was only opne female in the clutch so I will keep them and see what happens in a couple years.
Did one gene cancel out the other or what?????

The only thing I think I did answer for sure is that my tri-color isn't a extreme hypo thats for sure.I think there is a good chance my male is a totally different animal and he is just het for the other hypo gene.I will be breeding him to a totally normal het for nothing female next year and then breeding the babies back together to try and extract or isolate the genes.

So, I guess it makes it all that much funner for the years to come.

dad.

this is mom and there is no doubt that the clutch was fathered by the male above since this girl was a virgin and I never bred her to any other snakes.I did the same breeding last year but she slugged out for me.
It was all or nothing cause I want to prove that they were not the same gene.I really expected to get all hypos and I didn't think any would be extreme I just thought maybe one would be Mega since it seems to kinda act as co-dom sometimes.

Anyway, here is mom.

I also bred my mega tri color to my v.p. tri-color hypo het anery.I have 4 good eggs and they are about three weeks away still from hatching.I hope to prove out if he is het anery or not and if he is I should see a ghost or two.I would expect to see all hypos but now I have my doubts.

so time will tell but I really look forward to seeing this small clutch now.

Enjoy,
L8r

Interesting stuff Shannon. Does a "het for nothing" female even exist anymore, lol?
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Joe

One of the first times I've seen were a punnetts square would have been useless. That hondo appears to be an extreme tricolor hypo. Just goes to show you that that extreme gene is still predictably unpredictable. Like you said "funner" times ahead figuring that one out.

Luck

Scott Sweeney
Sweeney's Serpents

This is strange. But I think you have the right hunch that it's a different Hypo gene that's a Dominant or CoDominant trait. That would make a little more sence. We'll see what happens when you breed him to a het for nothing.

Geez, I am scratching my head as well looking at those hatchlings pictures, how you could possibly just have one hypo given what the parents look like.

let me ask you this...is the mother first time breeder? If she is not a first time breeder, what hondo was she bred to last year, because as you know, snakes can possibly retain sperm for a year. If she is a first timer, then we go back to the unknown zone. And I would do the same thing as you are planning to do, that is keep the hypo male and one female sibling and see what would happen couple of years from now when you breed them.

My other question is, are you the only one who has a tricolor hypo extreme (assuming originally that we all thought he was a hypo extreme)? If someone else has one that looks similar to your male breeder, I wonder how he is doing with his breeding program?

Oh, and my last set of questions, who are the original parents of your male "hypo tricolor extreme"? Have the original parents bred again and able to produce hondos that look like your male breeder?

Interesting stuff.

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RAY - "Laziness is nothing more than a habit of resting before getting tired!"

Ray, all very good questions bud.
First, yes she was a first time breeder.Well, actually last year I bred these guys together but got slugs.She has never been in with any other snake.And I got her as a hatchling from Mike in (03).
The parents that produced my animal is a triple het male and a kinda dirty looking hypo poss het amel female.I own both the parents now.

Jeff Alloway had both the snakes from day one.The male is a (2001) and he bvought a pair.He bred the pair together the same year as he bred the triple male to the hypo female.Thats when he produced the weird "mystery" animal that Terry has now.

The hypo female laid 12 eggs and the only one that hatched was the one that had my tri-color mega whatever in it.The next year she laid 13 or 14 all slugs.The next year she did the same.The next year she did the same and had one egg stuck in her.Jeff called me and said I could have her if I just paif the shipping.I said sure cause I wanted to breed my weird tri color back to his mom.I got her and sure enough she had a big egg stuck in her,I was able to aspirate the egg and palpate it out pretty easy.
Last year I tried breeding him to her but just got slugs.I am not sure if they even hooked up.He also bred a hypo double het snow and she also laid slugs.He also bred a anery het hypo and a triple het female and both those died right after there pre-lay sheds.It was really weird and was just a terrible year for me last year.

Anyway, this year I bred the big triple het to her and I watched them lock up several times.She gave me 14 slugs.
So out of over 50 or maybe 60 eggs there has only ever been one baby and its my weird tri color.
But because of all the other cool stuff produced from this triple het male I am sure it was him and not the female hypo that has the weird gene (Mega).

You asked if there are any other tri-colored extremes? Well,Terry produced one last year that looks allot like mine and Rusty has it.I really don't know if there any others but I am sure there are a few.I did ask Falcon this year and he said he has never produce da tri color extreme.He said he had produced some that were intermidiates and were kinda low end ones but just sold them off as hypos.

Anyway, Its just as much a mess as it was a couple years ago.
I did learn that my animal isn't a hypo but I will do a breeding or two more to make sure.
Infact,I have 4 eggs about 3 weeks away from him x v.p.tri-color hypo het anery.I know he is het hypo so I hope to see a ghost if he is het anery.
I bred him to a killer virgin tangerine amel but she gave me 6 slugs.Next year I will throw him on her again and try and prove out if he is het amel or not.

Next year I will have about three girls for him also from his own lines so it will be cool to see what we get.

And as we speak I have some killer tangerine amels hatching from the triple het to a amel thats maybe a hybino.

L8r Shannon

Wow, with all the breeding you have done with that tricolor extreme and having 50-60 slug results, it's quite admirable to not get down on yourself and look at it as an opportunity that perhaps you are embarking on something really great in the future.

Terry calls his hypo extreme "mystery hypo". And because of the success he has had with his, it became a household name.

I think it is high time for you to call yours with a name distinct and unique...and whatever term you can think of, keep using it so that the community can eventually refer it back to your tricolor extreme.

I vote for a term/phrase, "conundrum extreme", because by definition per Webster dictionary it is an intricate and difficult problem to solve. Yes, it is a problem, but I think it is a problem that everyone here (including myself) would love to have! That animal at the onset survived against probably one of the greatest odds (to survive alone from a large clutch and to look uniquely like that). So, I truly believe that it survived for a reason and what better way to find out and go through the journey and entrust that journey to you!

Also, I would keep all the notes that pertain to the breeding or mating of that male because when you eventually crack the "conundrum", you may be in a better position to publish something like that in a reptile magazine.

Excellent work you are doing! And here's to cracking that conundrum!

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RAY - "Laziness is nothing more than a habit of resting before getting tired!"

Hey Shannon,

So I have been giving this some thought. Neither of the animals (the Falcon and the Mega) are regular (or Love-line or whatever) hypo or else you would have gotten no normals (which you knew already). That means that Falcon-line Extremes are probably not a homozygous Love hypo (or else you would have gotten about half hypos) so Extreme is not just a super really good line-bred hypo (every one probably knew that already too). The same is true for your Mega tricolor. It also means that the Extreme and Mega are probably not the same mutation either (or else you would expect all Mega/Extreme looking animals). So, what the hell does that leave us with?

I dont know, but I am with you in thinking its something new. Very cool stuff.

Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

Since you're the geneticist, I'm inclined to believe you. LOL I'd say that leaves us with three distinct hypomelanistic traits.

-Cole