Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As a field herper, we understand, water bowls are not availaggble for the vast majority of xeric snakes. That is, there is rarely drinking water available. In some cases, never and in other cases only a few times a year.

To compare this to captivity, how would your snakes fair if you watered them twice a year? My bet would be, they would die right off. hahahahahahahaha.

In nature, they work on conserving water, not gaining water. most of their water comes from their food, and they use behavior to not lose any moisture they do not have to. In otherwords, they avoid dehydrating conditions at all costs.

In captivity, we normally offer clean drinking water daily and do not concern ourselves with water loss.

Well many years ago, I read in some silly book that wild snakes can go their whole life without drinking water. So whats a fella to do? You test it.

Of course I picked a nice species that was pretty and a kingsnake, pyros, hahahahahahahahahaha.

So I hatched some out and proceed to raise them their whole lifes without ever offering drinking water. Hmmmmmmmmm Well, it worked. I soon found conditions that allowed them to grow fast, maintain health and never drink water.

On a side note, under these conditions they seem to digest prey much better and more complete.

The results were funny. The results taught me a WHOLE lot about wild snakes. In fact, it was key in understanding how they live.

Basically speaking, you keep the snakes like you keep the eggs. hmmmmmmmm what a thought! Well, maybe not, it really depends on how you keep the eggs. The key to egg incubation is understanding humid and dry. Wild eggs are always humid and dry. Not hunid and wet, which is a sorry balance many keepers attempt to work with.

Once I understood humid and dry, I was able to hatch any type reptile egg. And I was able to raise snakes without needing to give them water.

In our field studies, we see snakes coiled in one place for a few months. hmmmmmmmmm it makes me wonder why my captives cannot do that, they would die!!!!!! Cheers

Ahhh, would spilled water bowls in pine shavings work?

Seriously,, what substrate did you us? Tell me more about how you kept the right humidity for the pyros.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

So what's your point?
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Darwin Rocks!

a theory, can you raise kings without water. The test, try it until you can do it. The result, yes you can and very well. Also learned other very useful bits of information about snakes. Thats all. So whats your point?

I had a theory that I could maintain snakes without offering proper nesting sites, without much choice in temperature, on newspaper, time their brumation, ovulation, breeding, egg laying and hatching based on artificial manipulation of their natural tendencies, feed them on a single food source their entire life and successfully reproduce them year after year. Tried it until I could with same result you noted- yes you can and very well. I think this is what people have been trying to tell you for years.

Kind sir, do you know the difference between theory and hypothesis? Ken

Why would I do that? The eastern and FL complex kings I'm inclinded to work with tend to have the largest populations near water. I would think they drink in the wild. naturally they would have some survival mechanisms for when its not available but don't see the need to put them into survival mode.
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Darwin Rocks!

Those wet locations probably do provide enough hydration in the food items consumed there, the heavy humidity, the rainfall, the cool shade, the morning dew, etc. No doubt we find snakes living in some places that would be sure quick death if duplicated in a small box. If you take all our known maintenance requirements and think about it, there’s no way a snake could survive in the wild!

for what its worth I think that the fact that snakes CAN drink likely means that they DO when they need to. Perhaps I'm intellectually lazy but I don't feel the need to explore it further than that.

I have no doubts that normal husbandry leads to needing to drink more often but as long as water is available I don't see this as a problem. Conversely, in a captive setting, I can easily see more problems being encountered (or created) by working to increase humidity levels to the point that they don't require drinking water!

I used to keep rosie boas and only occasionally gave them water and did nothing to really elevate the humidity level in their cage. I don't think this translates across the board as I have other snakes who would quickly desiccate under the exact same conditions.

Boys and girls this is another example of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Keep them water bowls filled and fresh and everything will be fine.
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Darwin Rocks!

The rosy boas i had (and i had a very large collection of all different localities in the 80's and early 90's) could not have water before or right after a meal or they would regurge. Water dishes were put in one day per week then removed. Then i realized they did not need water.

just because the snake will drink does not mean it is good for the snake. I am not saying this applies to all species but JUST to Rosy boas. regurging problems and falgelattes seem to rule with this species when water is supplied. After i removed water from thie weekly routine all problems went away.

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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

"just because the snake will drink does not mean it is good for the snake. I am not saying this applies to all species but JUST to Rosy boas. regurging problems and falgelattes seem to rule with this species when water is supplied. After i removed water from thie weekly routine all problems went away."

So what you are saying is that something was broke and you fixed it right? That is a far cry from a blanket admonishment to rethink how we hydrate our animals when a problem hasn't even been identified!
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Darwin Rocks!

FR said regarding the pyros:

"under these conditions they seem to digest prey much better and more complete."

I guess we all need to keep an eye on the poop to be real experts.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

reminds me of a Bob Nelson joke.
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Darwin Rocks!

Actually I know Bob Nelson and FR is funnier.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

Can't be the same kind of funny!
Bob Nelson

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Darwin Rocks!

ya I saw that but FR originated humor back before nelsons time..
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes

HE WAS A HUMOR PIONEER TOO!!!!!
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Darwin Rocks!

Thanks for that link Tony. With all the laughs I been getting from reading the forums for the last few weeks, I enjoyed some real comedy. It's funny as I probably haven't seen that skit for 20 years or so, but still could remember every punch line.
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Joe

Note on water - I do know that some corn keepers have reported their snakes stop soaking in the water dish if they have a humidity chamber they can use.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

I have actually kept a large collection of rosy boas with no water (or offerring very little once in a while) for a number of years.

However i would offer water to gravid females and neonates. otherwise my adults went year round with no water. Started doing this because they did better without drinking. Less problems this way.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
"You do not breed them, they breed themselves. That sorta takes you out of the picture. All you become is a poop scooper and cage cleaner"
Frank Retes