Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I have a 4 month old male Ball Python who is showing EARLY signs of an R.I. He has a little extra spit in his mouth and a little clicking noise. I checked the heat pad to see if maybe the heat source wasn't hot enough, and the heat pad was barely hot! I bought a new one and now the heat pad is normal. I think this was the cause. So my question is, how have you guys treated an R.I.? Since the symptoms are early, I would prefer not to take him to the vet since it's expensive, any ideas? THANKS!

Hi,
I am new to the ball python hobby (and this is my first entry on a forum), but my husband and I have had snakes for a long time. One of my ball pythons got an RI after the stress of shipping, etc. and we took her straight to the vet. These guys can die from RIs. I've read all over that increasing heat to 85-90 degrees helps their immune response, but if you have an expensive morph, or beloved pet, I'd get it in for antibiotics to avoid a loss.

Any experienced breeders/hobbyists have suggestions, or comments about taking to the vet first thing?

Good luck,
Jessica

Temps would need to be a little higher than that. Those temps are pretty normal. Need to raise them a few degrees and if the RI is really early with NO STRESS it may can fight it off, I would still consider a trip to the vet.
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Hi CardiacsMD,.....Typically I will keep them very warm 88F and humid. Place water bowl over the heat pad!....Cold and humid KILLS, Warm and humid loosens secretions......Do not assume it is strictly respiratory. Can be something like stomatitis inducing an infection of the glottis..........If you are a doctor and the animal is large enough listen to the lung about 1/2 of the way down the body with a stethoscope. Listen for rice crispies or wheezes. WHEEZES is typically Upper respiratory.......Try the heat and humidity for a week. see if there is some improvement!!!....If not anticipate a vet visit......................If you end up at the vet ask the doctor to avoid a culture, until you have tried Baytril for at least another week. KEEP the animal warm and humid during Baytril treatment.....If the baytril has not improved the animals condition after a week GO FOR THE CULTURE!!!........The problem with a culture is that Ball pythons carry multiple organisms in their mouths and respiratory tract. ISOLATING the right bacteria that is actually causing the illness is very difficult........Fortunately enrofloxacin (baytril) is broad spectrum and very effective on MOST BP respiratory and oral pathogens. Baytril can be administered orally or intramuscular but IM is not easy and nearly impossible for one person to do and be safe. I use a 1ml tuberculin syringe to draw it up then place that in a 3cc syringe with water and tube the animal with a 5french feeding catheter. Moisten catheter with egg white or at least water. DO NOT ADMINISTER the med in the Glottis. the 5f catheter will fit in the glottis so BE SURE to avoid it at all costs!!!!!!! YOU WILL KILL IT if the tube enters the glottis. Drowning the animal with what is meant to cure it..................Fortunately the esophagous is a HUGE target even on a baby.............Have the vet calculate the proper dose of the baytril as it comes in 3 concentrations!!! REMEMBER to ISOLATE THE ANIMAL!!! Protect the other animals you own........LAST NOTE: Check the gums of the animal to see if they are pale or show any signs of infection. Use the handle side of a plastic knife to open the mouth. Popsicle sticks or tongue depressors do not work well because the fine teeth of the animal get stuck in them and can cause some harm. PLASTIC is your friend ....................................................God Bless, Lee Van Hyfte

If you've got bubbles then it's past the early stages and you need to seek out a good herp vet for antibiotics. In the mean time - give him a good sauna soak to help loosen up the congestion -- while he is soaking disinfect his caging (you'll probably want to keep him on papertowels or newspaper (if you aren't already) until the RI clears up and bump your temperatures up to about 90* ambient.

Good luck!
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Where is everyone going that thier vets are horridly expensive... ?!

an office visit here is $40.... that includes the exam to see if it is a URI... the medication usually runs us around 12-25$ ... depending on how big the snake is...

thats like... $60.... DON'T EAT OUT THIS WEEK AND TAKE YOUR PET TO THE VET.

waiting too long can mean death for the snake. at a certain point- medication won't even "fix it"...

good luck

~Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Lol! I know the costs, but even though my user name is "cardiacsmd" I'm not a cardiac surgeon yet. I'm a student, and I'm broke! Lol just thought I'd make that known so people don't think I'm a poor doctor lol.

Yha... That thought had crossed my mind... my daughter has a heart defect so we use a cardiologist (obviously)... and he's not poor by any means...

I'm in veterinary school... so I know the feeling of being a poor student...

Try what others have said regarding raising the temps, etc. and see if that knocks it- its worked for us before-- worth a try for sure.

~Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Yeah it is very hard because of all of the loans. Good to hear that there is another doctor coming into the world! We are so short nowadays. So yeah my snake isn't that bad at all the resp infection has just shown a little bubbling in the mouth, but not coming out of the mouth or the nose. It isn't that bad. I have the heat pad on and the temp is about 91 degrees. And on the other side I have a heat lamp on for a few hours so the whole tank is about 93 degrees. I had a pet store tell me to use penicillin that they use in the store and put it in his water. What do you think about that?

We've used Tylan or Tylosin ... its for cattle and big animals--- so the dose is incredibly small but works beautifully... just have to get a proper dosing or you'll send the snake into kidney failure.

Try the temp thing and see how that works for a few days.

~Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Okay so I will continue with the heat and see what happens. If I see even the SLIGHTEST improvement, I will keep going with the heat. But if I don't see improvement, you think the penicillin or tetracyclin is worth a try? Thanks!

Sounds like you've been given some very good advice in the above posts. As a veterinarian in general practice, and an interest in herps, I have been a bit reluctant to give out medical advice here, mainly because I'm not a specialist in exotic medicine and it's at best difficult to give appropriate advice without having my hands on the patient. With that said, when a client comes to me with a sick reptile, I spend about 90% of my time in the exam room talking to the owner and about 10% of my time looking at the patient. Most reptile problems are husbandry related and I want my time with my client to be a good learning experience so that future similar problems can most likely be avoided. Being a veterinarian, I hate to hear that a trip to the vet is too expensive; this may be true in some situations, but if a person/patient recieves good treatment and a good learning experience, that money spent one time will help care for your snakes for years to come. All point of view. I have found that in keeping my snakes, that cutting corners in caging, temp control, cleanliness and paying attention to details is always the way to be sure to make costly mistakes! Good luck with your sick snake! Tom Harbin, DVM

Hi Tom,........In My case I had to learn A LOT about herpvet care. (thanks T.Weidner, A. Beldago, M. Wendling for teaching a KID) In the late 80's and early 90's there was NO VET in iowa that seriously knew anything about herps. My closest option was Chicago. No internet either......I have no problem using a vet if I can find one that has actual knowledge. Dr. Rick Harmon is a god sent in DesMoines always willing to advise other vets and what have ya.........Still DesMoines is 140 miles. ARGH!! So the Merck Vet Manual online is the next best thing............TO be honest I really prefer to let the animal try to fight it if it can!! Real immunity is better than any antibiotic. But there are times when THEY GOTTA GO!!.....Only had 5 or so RIs in the last 20 years 3 were fresh purchases the other 2 were during cycling!!...I think I am doing OK......God Bless, lee

How did you cure your snakes? I would prefer not to go to a vet, so any advice you have would be great! But of course if it gets worse within this week I will. He just ate today too. Thanks!

HI,...... The immune system at higher temps is much more active. Hopefully strong enough to offset the growth of the bacteria....They are designed to naturally defend against infection. It is when the cold blooded animal is too cold that infection can get a foothold......Warmth and heat make a huge difference. 88-90F throughout the whole cage will make a HUGE difference JUST MAKE SURE IT IS HUMID!!.... The high humidity also helps maintain the temps as it increases the thermal mass of the air itself(not going to get into gas laws).......ANOTHER NOTE: .I would avoid feeding the animal if possible....A ball can go a LOOOOOONG time without a meal....So giving it a week or 2 off feed is OK. Problem with feeding in my opinion is that it is just that much more stress on a sick snake. Especially considering the ordeal a BP has to go through to swallow a meal. IT IS A WORK OUT!! If you must feed use minimally sized prey items.... I have had a couple animals just deathly sick that WERE very hungry (likely due to 90F). Every time I opened the cage to mist them and check on them They were armed and ready!!!got the aren't you forgetting something look. HA HA!! Lee

Doc is right, it IS usually husbandry related. and most often temp related. the keeper has yet to mention temps at all, and can only say that the heat pad was barely hot.

"barely hot" means nothing, communicates zero temp info, and all things considered, that is probably where 95% of the problem lies.

learn the proper temps required for a healthy setup, how to measure those temps, how to achieve those temps, and you won't have booger problems.

address temps immediately, and the problem may go away on its own. dilly dally and you may very well end up with a dead snake. tomorrow, next week, in two months, ignore the cause and the end will come.

best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I have to disagree with "VERY HUMID". My first action with URI symptoms is to raise the heat and sometimes I will put a heat pad or rheostat controlled heat tape under the snake ( even though the animal is in a rack system with heat). But I REMOVE THE WATER initially. The animal in this condition is usually very mucous-laden......similiar to us when we have a cold and we have to constantly blow our nose. It is necessary to dry them out a bit. I will usually offer a water bowl for an hour every other day. If I don't see an improvement within 5 days, I will begin antiobiotic therapy with Baytril injections. Water does not go back in full time until I see some improvement.

Susan
SSNAKES Reptiles

Well, I assumed people would get the point. I'm not that oblivious. The temp on the actual heat pad was about 85 degrees which of course was way too low. Got a new heater, and now the temp on directly on the heat pad is about 100 degrees and with the paper towels on top, about 90. So I have the heat pad which is about 90 on one side, and a heat lamp which is about 90 as well on the other. Of course the heat lamp will go off at night, but I think this will do the trick!