Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know I am going to get shot down in flames, but here goes.

Collecting records, comics, toy cars, etc..

That is a hobby.

The care of living breathing creatures that have brains, lungs and hearts is a commitment, not a hobby.

Caring for any animal regardless of species requires the ability to judge rationally what is going on in front of you.

Mistakes equal dead animals.

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey

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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
0.1.0 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment (seven egg clutch!)
1.2.3 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids (30 plus released!)
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Hets
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Red Phase Eastern Garter red and white stripes
0.0.1 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake
0.0.6 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbons
0.0.16 Thamnophis sirtalis - newborn Eastern Garter babies 7/11/08
0.0.17 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic Scott Felzer stock.
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis CB "Flame" & Melanistic Scott Felzer
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis California Red Sided
1.2.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue) 2 females recently aquired.
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC
0.1.0 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snake (Her children were raised & released)
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Growing fast!
1.1.3. Green Anole "Crystal" & "Chris" WC dropping eggs fast!
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

I will agree with you to a certain extent in that it should be taken more seriously than collecting baseball cards or model cars. It is a delicate stewardship that requires a lot of time and dedication not to mention the finacial part of things. That said it is a hobby, I will always put my family or my home or even my job before I put my reptiles. Luckily I have a job that allows me to have such an amazing hobby in my past time. I am all for serious young people taking on the challenge of captive care and even breeding projects. I do believe they should have some sort of mentor, a family member, a friend, or as in my case a teacher. I have made mistakes along the way but it does not take away from the love I have for these animals. They were growing experiences for me that in some way have added to the way I now take care of my animals.

This is something serious and something special and should not be taken lightly but instead of telling people what they can't do we should tell them how to better what they are already doing. Talking down to someone isn't going to stop them from having snakes or trying to breed them but it will almost definately insure that they do it improperly. Embrace new comers and be willing to teach them things that took you a horrible experience to learn from.

It cant be said any better then that! Great reply! Thanks

Dan

Wayne,
Im not trying to shoot you down or anything like that, and you certainly are well intentioned and intitled you your own oppinion, but please let me share my view as well.
The thing is you can't "humanize" and equate the value of the life of a snake. When you feed those live fish, worms and toads to the snakes....what about them? I personally will kill or be responsible for killing more animals in just this one year alone just to put food on my table, than all the animals I killed by raising pets as a "hobbie" over my entire lifetime, and trust me many of those killings aren't even as merciless. For me it is a "hobbie", I'm not "adopting children" when I buy or trade a snake. But yes, you are right, we should try to be respectful and responsible pet owners and try to provide the best care possible for the animal, but that is all relative to the individual.
And as far as kids go, and hobbies and responsibilities... it's all about PARENTING, period.
Peace
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Seems that I created a bit of confusion..

The whole point was using the term "hobby"

There is nothing wrong with meaningful death, I feed mice to my animals every day, on the same note, I took my daughters pet mice away from her just this week because she was not taking proper care of them.

For the purpose of food, I would not hesitate to put the cross-hair on Bambi's forehead and squeeze the trigger.

I saw the gobbler fans on your wall, and I would have to assume that you ate the turkey?? I like mine with a side of yams and cranberry sauce. or sliced thin with mayo on bread.

However, I may be freak for mowing my lawn on the hottest part of the day to reduce the chance of chopping up snakes while mowing.

I would hesitate to call your collection a hobby, it looks more like Obsession would be the proper term there

And that was intended as a compliment......

Regards,
Wayne
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
0.1.0 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment (seven egg clutch!)
1.2.3 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids (30 plus released!)
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Hets
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Red Phase Eastern Garter red and white stripes
0.0.1 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake
0.0.6 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbons
0.0.16 Thamnophis sirtalis - newborn Eastern Garter babies 7/11/08
0.0.17 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic Scott Felzer stock.
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis CB "Flame" & Melanistic Scott Felzer
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis California Red Sided
1.2.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue) 2 females recently aquired.
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC
0.1.0 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snake (Her children were raised & released)
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Growing fast!
1.1.3. Green Anole "Crystal" & "Chris" WC dropping eggs fast!
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

LOL, you're right obsession is a better term, or flat out calling me a "nut" if you really want to be honest
I guess it's always been termed a "hobbies" for me when things or interests have clubs,shows ect. and part of or maybe the main reason I have been a part of various hobbie clubs and now things like these forums, is for the fellowship with other people who have like or similar interests, so then the whole big thing is more like something that carries the name hobbie. either way it's just terminology, not the important part.
I guess I was refering to killing animals and the value of a snake related to a humans. But what I was really refering to was, if I sell a kid one of my babies that I put blood, sweat, and tears into (literally sometimes) and then that kid ends up killing it because they didn't end caring for it properly long term, I don't really care, because at least that kid had enough interest to play the game or be a part of the hobbie if you will, and even though a snake was lost, maybe that kid grows up and becomes a major part of that "hobbie" resulting from that experience, even if it was a "failure" resulting in the death of a snake, that is of miniscule importance in the big picture.

And yes my wife and I ate every one of those turkeys on the wall and they were very delicious on the grill, but Target and Walmart do most of my animal killing for me, and sometimes even Ronald McDonald kills for us to eat and live, I don't know how he sneaks up on cows in that goffy looking clown suit though
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

I couldn't agree with you more Wayne ! Jeff

>> Mistakes equal dead animals.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Wayne A. Harvey
>>
>>-----

Hey Wayne

Interesting thread. Perhaps I can clarify where most people get the "hobby" label and why I personally use it. I consider anything that I do for enjoyment that does not pay my bills a hobby. Obviously my reptiles fall under this heading. While it is a pain cleaning the poo, I get great enjoyment from the handling and care of my animals. I also take great pride in my collection both of my personal animals and the animals in my rescue.

When asked what hobbies I have I believe the person wants to know what I do in my free time away from work and reptiles fall in that category for me. I would believe this is why so many refer to it as a hobby.

No flame throwers here, and I do agree that there are times people need to be more serious about what they have. Running a reptile rescue here at my house, I whole heartedly agree with that!
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

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