Reptile & Amphibian Forums

You know when I got into Indigo breeding I choose Indigos because thier supply never seemed to meet the demand and I wanted to breed something chalenging, fastinating, and wouldn't soon flood the market. Watching the prices over the years proved to me that they would never decrease in price. Yet lately I see that some very well known and respected folks have priced thier Indigos lower than I'd seen them since the eighties. Is thier a glut comming that I don't know about? OR is there another reason these snakes are selling for about half price?///S.

I'm thinking its more to do with the economy than the snakes. When people are struggling to make ends meet and the price for everyday needs are going up, expensive snakes get very low on the list. If breeders dont want to keep and feed the babies they've made for years they drop the price to sell them. This may not be true in every case.... but in most cases I'd say. Dan

The very first thing to suffer in a bad economy is reptile sales. Seriously, who NEEDS a snake? Demand is down. For those with more secure jobs this is a good time to pick up some stuff at reduced prices.

Doug T

I would have to agree...in tough economic times folks don't want to pay a lot of money on snakes - even those that are worth every penny like an eastern indigo. There are also many more indigo breeders - some whose names you wouldn't recognize but enjoying success and that's driving prices down which I personally think is great to see. In my case, I became very disenchanted with the private sector and no longer deal with them - I only donate specimens to established nature centers, museums and zoos. It's less stressful and far more enjoyable.

>>I'm thinking its more to do with the economy than the snakes. When people are struggling to make ends meet and the price for everyday needs are going up, expensive snakes get very low on the list. If breeders dont want to keep and feed the babies they've made for years they drop the price to sell them. This may not be true in every case.... but in most cases I'd say. Dan
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Long Soapy Box...

I agree with the you on the economy causing sales to fluster.

But also, the reason for the price rise may not have as much to do with demand other than the dollar becoming worth less and less and also, the general supply and demand coming back down from outer space.

On inflation-
Bread, gas, real estate, orange juice prices have all at least doubled, in some cases tripled in the last 5 years. Food prices are projected to have the highest rise since 1981 for the rest of 2008. (Yahoo news today) The Indigos' rise in price seemed to merely hold with inflation.

When the United States came off the gold standard in 72 gold was $35/oz. Now its a little over $800, it was $1000 a few months ago. So, in terms of gold, one 1972 dollar is worth about $24 today, about $30 US dollars few months ago. So, in the days when people bought indigos for $50 in the 70s, maybe those snakes should be going for over $1500 to really keep up with inflation adjusted dollars going back from the 70s.

But lastly, the rise in price seems to correspond to some hard-core marketing efforts aimed at doing nothing more than driving up the price of Indigos. It seemed that the people were trying to use the "Ball python" marketing strategy of selling the snakes as "investment" animals. How many Indigo ads list $Dollar$ potential and the huge fortunes to be made selling indigos?

It worked for awhile, but many people I have talked to fall out of love with Indigos after realizing that they're stinky and they have small jaws and need to eat small meals relative to their size and also need to eat more often. Couple that with the space requirements to truly keep them well, and I think the true market is not so large.

A few months ago it seemed the true situation of too many indigos listed on the classifieds meant some had to lower their price. It seemed that 2006 babies were still available by breeders but just not advertised. I've seen guys that sell lots of indigos dropping their price too. Maybe there is a free Ipod that will be coming too.

By the way, how are the Ball python investors doing? Are their excess snakes becoming food stock for the elapid guys? Its a new market, quick!

This forum used to be composed of guys that really cared about the snakes. Now, those guys have been driven off by the money guys. Now we're getting generation after generation of ever increasingly inbred animals thorough greed driven ignorance, or simply greed.

IMHO, The future , the indigos will pay the true price when all is done.

Matt

great answer.
I was wondering if someone was going to come up with the inflation statement...well done.

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

I sold my texas hatchlings for the going rate this year, and if I'd had Easterns I could have sold them too with all of the inquiries I've been getting. Who is selling hatchlings for half-price? I haven't seen any texans or easterns for less than the 900-1100 range.

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Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

I'm with you Paul, I haven't seen any evidence of a price crash. Quite the contrary, Texas Indigos are now on a par with Easterns and Yellow tail Cribos, at least the really nice ones, aren't far behind.

As for some people selling heavily discounted animals, there will always be individuals in any market that either don't know the value of a dollar or have a very short-term view of things. Once in a while someone may be in a financial bind, and sell their animals out of desperation.

I for one am glad that most Drys are either holding their own or increasing in value. If offspring from a type of animal have sufficient value to enable the owner to recoup his or her feeding and husbandry expenses and even realize some additional return on their investment, it attracts more people to the animals. Then many who buy their first Drys will soon realize what wonderful animals they are and become Dry enthusiasts.

Quick story: I got my first Dry, a 7 foot male Eastern Indigo, in 1962 as a high school sophomore. I bought it from Ray Singleton in Tampa, FL for the princely sum of $49. Back then Indigos were sold by the foot and the going rate was $7 per. It was sent via regular U.S. Mail to my parents house in Virginia and arrived in perfect shape. Although he was an adult when I bought him, I kept him through high school and college until he finally died in 1972.

Talk about the price going up since then! LOL

Brian

In fact, I posted the same sentiments but my post seems to have been deleted. Maybe because I asked for pointers to the low prices?

I'll say it again, I bought easterns for $500 bucks in 2002 but I haven't seen one near that price in years.

I got some in 2000 for 400 if anybody has any for that price let me know.

I think the original post was designed to stir the pot. Check the classifieds, they are holding their value.

I would say if anything they've gained a little value this last season. While boa and python sales are suffering.... indigos have not flooded the market, and with good breeders helping people keep and breed these animals more people will dive in. I'd say as long as gasoline isnt $15.00 per gallon, the indigo/cribo market will be strong for a good few years. I base this observation on making and loosing money in reptiles for over 15 years! lol. Dan

my sentiments exactly MM, among others, there's a very young pair being currently listed for 7 grand! pot stirring.....you bet'cha.

It's my understanding that the price for true unicolor hatchlings has actually increased from a few years ago. Maybe they've been hatched out this year but how many have been offered?

It's a kick to raise a hatchling indigo. As long as they're not ignored, indigos generally thrive. Clean that cage at least twice each week and watch the temps and humidity.

I give mine away for ZIPPO. But, there's a catch - I only deal with zoos, nature centers, museums and educational facilities....I'm done with the private sector - got burned too many times (nothing personal to those on this forum). Now, I just get to enjoy working with great folks and making sure facilities who wish to have one on exhibit, or, education, gets to have the opportunity w/out stretching their budgets. I'm having much more fun with the hobby now.

>>my sentiments exactly MM, among others, there's a very young pair being currently listed for 7 grand! pot stirring.....you bet'cha.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Hey Brian,

I lived in Tampa and new Ray Singleton. He was a real good guy.

How about this story...I lived in Ohio when I was in grade school and got my first indigo in 1961 from Ross Allen for $5.00. I had saved several weeks of money for shoveling snow and was going to order an indigo and as they were listed for $10.00 on his price list. When I finally sent the $10.00 he wrote back and said that the price had increased to $15.00. Well, I did not have the other five so I wrote back and told him to send me a yellow rat snake and a pine snake which were listed for $5.00 each. Well, several weeks went by and I had not recieved the snakes, when I recieved a letter from Ross asking if he could substitute an indigo for the pinesnake, as he did not have any pinesnakes in stock. Of course I wrote back and said for sure! About two weeks later I received from REA (Railroad Express & Air) a five foot gravid indigo that later laid 8 eggs and a everglades rat snake...all for the sum of $10.00 and $5.00 shipping. Those were the days!!!

Dan

Dan,

Great story. I've got a bunch of old price lists from the 60s and 70s that are amazing with all the stuff for sale then.

Yep, they were the good old days. I actually had a full head of hair then. LOL

Brian

I know what you mean Brian. I still got most of my hair...but what has not turned loses has turned white!!. speaking of prices lists....do you remember the Philadelphia Reptile Excacange, The "Snake Farm" in Miami and Louisiana reptiles which advertised LA Pines. Remember the Wild Cargo...I forget the star of the show...but he came to Cincinatti and I purchased my first boa for $5.oo. Also Chuck Nadel of Baraboo Wisconsin. Wow...I'm giving my age away. I remember the day when Black Pines were $400 and Indigos where $10.00!!

Dan

When I decided to post one of my yearlings (Eastern) I was a little nervous about the price too. I did see one for $600 last year, but I posted him for $1100 and I believe I will get every bit of that. I feel more sure now after reading these posts. He's is too beautiful to just "give away". We have to keep them up in price. Thanks.

Is it possible to take a look at one of these lists, preferably one with crocodilian (Maybe one of Ross Allen's list) ... I would love to take a look.

My fond price memories only go back to the early 90's ... I used to love getting Crutchfield's new lists, now a days from Crutchfield I have heard stories about lists and animals that were available back in the 60's and 70's and it just amazes me.

I would really like to take a look at some of those old list!!

Anyone want to scan some?

Let me see if I can dig up a couple of them, and then figure out how to scan them.

Brian

Thanks Brian .... if its easier for you could just snail mail them to me, I could paypal you over a couple bucks to cover cost (making copies, postage, etc)

I would be happy to scan them, post them for others to see and mail them back to the original owner. Let me know -

Joe
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Herpers 4 OBAMA!