Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How many normal phase silver lines are being produced? What is the history of the normal phase silver's?

Interested in everyone's input.
-----
B

>>How many normal phase silver lines are being produced? What is the history of the normal phase silver's?

One. Mark and Kim Bell hatched the first ones around '89. They were Axanthic Blonde, so he and others he sold them to bred those to normals to make double-hets, then Normally Patterned Silvers.

Craig Trumbower outcrossed the M.B. Silvers to make them even lighter, but they're still Mark Bell's. Although, they are called "Trumbower Silvers".

Aaron Mattson and Gregg Feaster each also have some interesting animals, but neither have been proven as simple recessive Silvers (yet). I have a hunch that Gregg's might be, but the story on those animals seems to have changed so much from person-to-person, that I'm thinking those might be Mark Bell Axanthics. If the story on them is true, then they originate from the same geographical region as the M.B. Axanthics, at any rate.

Again, I've never ever heard of the "Davis Mtn." Silvers that you told me about in e-mail -- not to say that they are misrepresented, because it would be cool if they are really locality Axanthics, but no one who I know who are suboc fanatics (and I've interviewed everyone who has anything to do with TPRS morph history) has ever mentioned anything about a Davis Mtn. line of Silvers. Again, that's not to say they don't exist, but if they do, then they are absolutely rare, have nearly died out or are allelic with Mark Bell's line, and the person(s) who had them have been pretty queiet about them.

Mark Bell told me that the only other person who had some Silvers hatch was Randy Limberg, but those must've died out or got mixed in, because everyone I know of who has Silvers who knows their history has linked them back to Mark Bell.

When it comes to locality morphs of any species, you really have to know and trust the integrity of the person who makes the claim that they are indeed locality-specific.

Anyway, I wish to emphasze that I don't have the final word here, but I'm sure I've studied the history behind these animals as well as anyone. I know all too well how touchy a subject/definition "locality" can be in the right circles.

Dusty Rhoads
Suboc.com

Hey Dusty, have you ever talked to Alan Tenant to see what he was talking about in his "Snakes of Texas" book where he mentions a population of gray (I think he said blue gray or steel gray) subocs living in the Davis Mountains? For years, I used to wonder about those. His book seemed to be the only one that ever really mentioned it and there was no photo.

Mike

>>Hey Dusty, have you ever talked to Alan Tenant to see what he was talking about in his "Snakes of Texas" book where he mentions a population of gray (I think he said blue gray or steel gray) subocs living in the Davis Mountains? For years, I used to wonder about those. His book seemed to be the only one that ever really mentioned it and there was no photo.
>>
>>Mike

Hey Mike,

I haven't talked to Alan. In his book, he mentioned that Bob Dellis described the "steel-gray" animals from the Franklin Mountains in El Paso in the '60s. Well, none of the Franklin Mtn. animals I've seen were grey (and I've never found any reference to a Bob Dellis publishing anything). All the Franklins I've seen were golden yellow or yellow orange.

Now, that brief mention of "steel-grey" subocs in the Franklins in Tennant's book has been repeated in just about every book since. LOL Of course, neither Tennant nor anyone else (like Bartlett, Werler, Dixon etc.) who has repeated that tidbit ever had any photos of examples. So, that was one of the myths I cleared up in the book. I included a couple photos of Franklin Mtn. animals in there too.

What Bob Dellis actually saw remains a mystery. Were they just a fluke, like maybe a small population of Axanthics? I tend to think they were some Grey phase animals, though that does not appear to be the usual phenotype for that locality either.

Dusty
Suboc.com

Bartlett also mentions Silver subocs, but doesn't give locality data. You know anything about that? Just curious..

Matthew

>>Bartlett also mentions Silver subocs, but doesn't give locality data. You know anything about that? Just curious..
>>
>> Matthew

Sure do. That would be the Designer Reptiles (2002) book, and he has a photo of a Silver (aka Axanthic Blonde). They were born in captivity by shear serendipity, so no locality data would be given. Here's one:

Suboc.com

Dusty,

Ok, so its mainly a captive-bred ( developed) morph? Anyway, a cool looking snake.

Matthew

PS. The reference I made was in his little Corn & Ratsnake book. But he must have been thinking of those..

>> Ok, so its mainly a captive-bred ( developed) morph?

Yeah, sorry for the late reply -- it originated in captivity, but it wasn't developed per se, it just sort of happened.

>>PS. The reference I made was in his little Corn & Ratsnake book. But he must have been thinking of those..

Ah...I have the older version of that book (1996; the one with a Yellow Rat in defensive pose on the cover). Apparently, there's an updated one. The older one doesn't have any reference to Silver morph.

DR