Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What do you guys use as disinfectants to clean cages with? Anyone use Nolvasan? With this product, do you have to rinse it with water after wiping the cage floor with it or is it safe once it dries after you wipe it down?

I use nothing even resembling a Chemical in my house or my snake room.

I use pure apple cider vinegar and it is 100% non harmful to anything and wipes out fungus and mildew and germs and viruses.

Within a few hours, the vinegar smell will leave.

I even bath the snakes occasionally in a mild water and vinegar bath.

John J

>>I use nothing even resembling a Chemical in my house or my snake room.
>>
>>I use pure apple cider vinegar and it is 100% non harmful to anything and wipes out fungus and mildew and germs and viruses.
>>>>>>>

That's a pretty big claim. Got a link, or ISBN for a book that says that?

Seems to me that if plain ol' vinegar was such a great virucide and fungicide, then every vet in the nation would be saving thousands a year on disinfectants for lab cleaning. But fact is, they spend thousands on such products, because such products are proved to work.

I'd love a link or something that would educate me in the matter.

Rick
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Sunset BCI

Wont happen !more smoke up the chimney

>>I'd love a link or something that would educate me in the matter.
>>
>>Rick

Go under google and you can find out all you need to know in order to make a good decision on its usage.

Medical field also does not want people knowing that they can cure acid reflux disease with Baking Soda and Vinegar.

However, it does " trust me, I know because I use to suffer from it terribly. "

There is no money for companies to make, by educating people on natural cures and natural disenfectants.

Read up and make your own conclusion, but I came to my own conclusions a long time ago, on this and others.

John J

I just might have to do that.

But I'll tell ya. I got one of the most unselfish Vets around, and one of the best Herp Vets within 600 miles or so. He is always giving me freebies in service, meds, supplies, and knowledge......He's done a lot to save me money over the years, but He ain't ever suggested I use vinegar to clean because it's cheaper and just as effective.

I gotta sorta wonder why that is.
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Sunset BCI

It is not for me too tell you why he has not and I will not even try to guess.

I simply do my own research and try to approach it in a common sense matter.

I have went as far, as using meat and chicken on a cut board and then disenfecting it with pure vinegar " sitting for ten minutes, " and then taking a suave of it for incubation and not growing anything.

I did several other tests years ago, that showed great results.

It was enough for me, to use it and no that it would never harm my family or the animals.

Let me go real quick and see if I can find a article that I ran into a while back on how vinegar was tested in one study.

If I can find it, I will come back and post it for you and if not, you will find a wealth of information on it on the net and of course you have to decifer through the B.S. and make your own decision.

John J

This is one of many studies, that you can find.

In this study, Vinegar was put too the test and showed great results.

Other tests, have shown even better results, but this is a good start.

http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2006/Projects/J1435.pdf

John J

I'll do some more reading on it, but for now, I think I'll stick to Chlorhexadine. It's been tested on a wide variety of microbes. You can't make an accurate claim like the vinegar one, without testing a wide variety or organisms. And anyone who does is........well, foolish.
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Sunset BCI

To so many's joy; " I guess I will continue to be a fool. "

However, I am glad that I finally realized truths, that most people refuse to accept and that is their choice.

However, I do not call them fools or foolish.

Seems I cannot get the same respect in return from some.

Such Is Life, John J

Lets not put words in my mouth now. I said anyone who makes that kind of a choice, based on a single claim is foolish. Meaning, I, as in ME, am not foolish enough to switch based on one substantiated claim. If I was calling you a fool, it would have looked more like, "you are a fool!".

I disagree with you, yes, but I am far from close minded. I just don't jump into things without at least a little bit of thought, and or research. One article, which looks to be written by a 6th grade science student, is not enough to convince me to switch from a tried and proved method.

Pretty simple really. Try not to make it more then it is.

Peace
Rick
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Sunset BCI

With your ever increasing post count . . . . .

>> and of course you have to decifer through the B.S. and make your own decision.
>>
>> John J
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"The Biological purpose of pain is to prevent the recurrence of Stupidity."

Quite safe and user friendly !
PM Sent

>>What do you guys use as disinfectants to clean cages with? Anyone use Nolvasan? With this product, do you have to rinse it with water after wiping the cage floor with it or is it safe once it dries after you wipe it down?

For years I have used diluted chlorohexidene which is called either novasan or virosan with good results. I use it to clean the interior and exterior of Vision cages including the glass doors. Wipe dry with no rinsing required. Cleans very well and disoves urates and I have a "clean smelling" snake room. I use it to clean water bowls too but as recommended, thoroughly rinse the water bowls. Bill.
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...three years ago it was just another snake cult...
The Retic is King.
Anacondas-the other Dark Side.
Afrocks-the dark side of the Dark Side.

I use Chlorhexidine for cages and tubs. Wipe out with paper towels. No rinse required.
I use a dilute solution of Clorox Cleanup for water bowls. Rinse thoroughly.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I use Nolvasan sometimes to wipe out the big cages, then let air dry!! After this I wipe it out with a clean water soaked rag, then let air dry again!! If you read all the warnings on the back of the Nolvasan it's kind of scary.. That's why I rinse then let air dry again!! (just my 2 cent's)& to each his own!!

I mainly use Ajax dish soap with antibacterial.. I know it says not to on the Ajax warnings, but sometimes I put a little bleach in mix(like a couple Tablespoons per 3 gal. bucket)!! Just make sure to rinse well!! The nice thing's about Ajax is it's cheap, readily available, comes in many scents and is antibacterial.. I don't alway's use bleach (it really drys the hands out), I'd say once a week for water bowls!

good luck on your cleaning's

Chaz

Chlorhexadine Gluconate...works great, proved effective.

www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07b58-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

Smells much better then vinegar too.
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Sunset BCI

if you read the lable on the chlorhexadine gluconate here is what it says (CAUTION: For external use only. Avoid contact with eyes, ears, and mucous membranes. If contact occurs, immediately flush with water) after reading that i would not want my snakes to come in contact with that stuff, it sounds like it could do more harm than good, at least you know you can drink vinigar and it will not harm you so it must be safer for your snakes, there must be something else out there that is safer to use, just my 2 cents.
greg c

Is that after you dilute it? I can understand not pouring it onto the boa straight from the bottle, but after it is extremely diluted and wiped out with a paper towel I don't think that it will hurt anything.

Yes you can drink vinegar, but will it kill all of the harmful bacteria? I just have a hard time believing that it does.

yes because they are telling you this after you prepare the product for use according to the directions wich is one once per gallon of water to make a solution, (CHLORHEXIDINE SOLUTION)

AgriLabs

CHLORHEXIDINE GLUCONATE 2.0%

For Animal Use Only

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: An antiseptic and antimicrobial disinfectant which provides fast acting activity against a wide range of microorganisms, especially against those commonly present on the skin.

DILUTION: One ounce (2 tablespoons) of Chlorhexidine Solution per gallon of water.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE: Rinse area to be disinfected with an ample amount of Chlorhexidine Solution. Wipe away excess and pat dry with a sterile gauze or sponge. Non-toxic, non-irritating agent possessing a wide range of antiseptic and antimicrobial activity against organisms which infect the skin, such as bacteria, fungi, ringworm and yeast.

CAUTION: For external use only. Avoid contact with eyes, ears, and mucous membranes. If contact occurs, immediately flush with water.

ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:

Chlorhexidine Gluconate
2.0%

WARNING:

In case of accidental ingestion, seek professional assistance or contact the poison control center immediately.

KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.

if you where ordering a hero sandwich wich one would you eat, the one with oil and vinegar on it, or the one with oil and CHLORHEXIDINE GLUCONATE 2.0% on it,?
greg c

after reading the warning lable on the chlorhexadine gluconate it looks like to me that they don't want you to ingest any of the product, well thats fine but your snakes have to drink from the water bowl that you just cleaned with chlorhexadine gluconate , flick their tongue out and come in contact with chlorhexadine gluconate, and when they eat they drag their food all over the tank that you just treated with the chlorhexadine gluconate, so to me they are ingesting small amounts of the product and that can not be healthy, why take the chance, there must be a better alternative.
greg c

Obviously, don't wash your bowls with it! I used antibacterial dish soap, the kind you use on your own dishes for washing bowls, and Nolvasan for cages.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

Vinegar pH is 2.4, very irritating to skin. Needs to be pH balanced or rinsed. You wouldn't leave it on your hands without rinsing. Do you use Cider Vinegar? The Wiki says about cider vinegar:
Due to its acidity, apple cider vinegar can be very harsh, even burning the throat. If taken straight (as opposed to usage in cooking), it should be diluted (e.g. with fruit juice) before drinking. Others dilute it with warm water and add some honey. There have been reports of acid chemical burns of the throat in using the pill form."

You can dip or soak your hands right on Nolvasan, and wipe it off, no rinsing. You can see Rich Ihle and Tracy Barker, soaking their hands in it, between handling different snakes, in Ihle's Video!

Nolvasan (chlorhexidine diacetate), an EPA-registered chlorhexidine disinfectant, works against at least 60 different bacteria, fungi, yeasts, and viruses. Nolvasan is noncorrosive, has minimal to no skin irritation, and retains antimicrobial activity in the presence of organic matter. The unique binding of Nolvasan to skin proteins provides residual activity for as long as two days.

Beat that with vinegar!
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

Join the ranks of the many that also think that there are no Natural Cures for the Diseases in this world.

Join the ranks of those, that put there beliefs in the FDA and EPA as if they are apart of their Religion.

My opinions on this subject are done.

Enjoy the use of those " safe chemicals. "

John J

>>Join the ranks of the many that also think that there are no Natural Cures for the Diseases in this world.

Hey I am not one of those. I am an alternative healthcare practitioner. I have been cured of some really horrible things with alternative medicine. But I am sensible, not one of those health food freaks. I read labels, and I am a pretty good investigator too. If there really was a natural alternative that worked as well with the same effort I'd be there. But there isn't. If vinegar was that great it would be used in ERs and ORs. It's not. It has no medical application because other cleaners work better.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

They are all in on it together; " I know, the conspiracy crap. "

However, the same applies as in the use of medicines as far as how many will be honest about Vinegars properties as a " disenfectant and anti fungal and mildew agent, along with health benefits when ingested properly as I have done and still do. "

You can buy Vinegar for 99 cents a Gallon and the pure apple cider vinegar, is more expensive, but still way less expensive than any of the chemicals that are popularly used.

It is common sense; " What do you think would happen if the germ killing affects of Vinegar, were put under scrutiny and announced to the public that it is just about as good as their popular chemicals and of course NON HARMFUL? "

Of course; " More people would use it and it would hurt the pocket books of all of those companies, that make these Lab Made Chemicals. "

Not too mention, they would have to regulate Vinegar through the EPA and then it would probably not be able to be bought as a food product.

So, the best you will get out of studying the many benefits of Vinegar, is through many independant studies and they are No LESS VALID and there have been plenty of them, if you guys would just go and spend some hours researching it.

What you will also find out, is that there have been MANY independant tests done on these man made chemicals that have shown bacteria building up a resistance to them, just like the same thing has happened with the gross overuse of antibiotics and put a little common sense thought too that and it should raise an eyebrow of truth.

Bacteria and other pathogens are natural and nine out of ten times, there is a natural way to not just kill them all " for some have benefits and too sterile of a captive enviroment will hurt a specimen more than help it, by not allowing it to build up its own immunities to them, " but too keep them in a better and more healthy balance.

Everyone has been asking me for links to these studies.

Well, nobody dropped it in my lap and I had to get off of my duff and go find it myself.

When you go against the grain, you will always set yourself up for some redicule " I am very use too that by now. "

However, do not have contempt prior to investigation.

In the end, we all just want what is best for us and the animals, but you have to be willing to live outside the box and try new things.

John J

They have yet to make a chemical as safe and effective as chlorhexadine. It is effective against bacteria, fungi, and viruses and stays effective for up to two days after application. What properly diluted and used in wounds it isn't cytotoxic, meaning it doesn't destroy cells like Betadine and hydrogen peroxide do. It also isn't deactivated by contact with alcohol like many other disinfectants are. Almost all vets use chlorhexidine scrub on themselves and the animals before surgery, it is used in both human and veterinary dental care as a mouthwash, ear cleaners, wound cleaners, etc etc. It is EXTREMELY safe. If they had to put all the EPA regulated labeling on a bottle of vinegar it too would have it's fair share of warnings.

nice post, i use boiling water to disinfect my water bowls, ever see on tv those small steam cleaning machines, i wonder if they could work to disinfect the tank?
greg c

Chlorhexadine gluconate is what I use. I do dilute with deionized water per directions. Believe it to be primarily/originally used as a horse bath. I occasionally wipe my snakes down with it. There is another Chlorhexadine -- citrate I believe, used commonly as a mouth rinse.
As a matter of fact, I do add the Ajax antimicrobial dish detergent to my dilute Clorox Cleanup solution, as well. If nothing else, it helps with the rinse.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

The other type of Chlorhexadine is Diacitate. It holds similar warnings as the Gluconate. However, I was told directly, DO NOT use Diacitate to clean wounds, by my Vet, but rather use the Gluconate. And I have, on open gaping wounds too, and had no ill effects at all.

That's just after surgery, and a couple months later, after treating daily. Unless you're blind, you can plainly see that it is safe to use, no ill effects, regardless of warnings.

I think what people are missing, is we don't just toss our snakes back into the viv into a pool of the stuff sitting there. A little common sense is used around here.
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Sunset BCI

I just believe that this deserves a repeat......

>>They have yet to make a chemical as safe and effective as chlorhexadine. It is effective against bacteria, fungi, and viruses and stays effective for up to two days after application. What properly diluted and used in wounds it isn't cytotoxic, meaning it doesn't destroy cells like Betadine and hydrogen peroxide do. It also isn't deactivated by contact with alcohol like many other disinfectants are. Almost all vets use chlorhexidine scrub on themselves and the animals before surgery, it is used in both human and veterinary dental care as a mouthwash, ear cleaners, wound cleaners, etc etc. It is EXTREMELY safe. If they had to put all the EPA regulated labeling on a bottle of vinegar it too would have it's fair share of warnings.
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Sunset BCI

What happened to cause that wound?
Joel

>>What happened to cause that wound?
>>Joel

Long story. In a word though, surgery. LOL

I have a link to a Word .doc that you can download and read if you want. I kept tabs best I could during treatment, etc. Probably a bit frantically written, but I wasn't myself then.

Abscess.doc

Rick
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Sunset BCI

I wish I could've added to this post when it was active. My PC power supply blew out just installed a new one.
I couldn't agree more about chlorhexadine. Some vets even use it medicinally with birds. As a water additive(drinking Water) to cure a specific health problem I no longer remember the specific mane of of that problem. Its even safe to use with amphibians. Just had to agree best stuff you can use.
. . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Np
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1.1 96, 04 Het Albino - "Suzie" & "Lumpy"
0.1 03 Poss. Het Albino - "Ami"
0.1 05 Super Salmon - "CreamSicle"
0.1 04 Anery Het Snow- "Squelchy"
1.0 04 DH-Sunglow - "Dwayne"
1.0 06 TH-Moonglow - "Gargamel"
1.2 01 BRBs- "Gobball", "Larva" & "Tofu"

For what ?
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"The Biological purpose of pain is to prevent the recurrence of Stupidity."