Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How can you have 1 clutch hatch out 100% and 2 others 20% doing everything the same? One thing I did different this year was using "hatchrite" complete waste of money!! Lost 10 of 12 eggs 3 pipped and never came out, died in the egg. I cut the other 11 and had 1 alive and made it so far. so 2 of 12 may make it. 84 degrees 70% humidity and first and second clutch were in the same incubator. The second clutch 8 of 10 were either kinked from head to tail or died in the egg. What gives?? I am completely frustrated and disapointed. Last year I had 80% or better hatch rate!

I can only relate my experience (which is not much).

I used Hatch-rite this year also, and found that I needed to add water very often! My Eggs were always looking dented. I just kept adding water just about every week, and kept my temps 80 to 82
I had pretty good results, no kinks.

It sounds to me like your incubation tub allowed humidity to escape. I've never used hatchright but I don't see how it would make water disappear any differently than other incubation medium.

I use a sterilite shoebox w/o holes, and use saran wrap secured with a rubber band. Once a week I take the saran wrap off and wave my hands to mix air - and I never have to add water.

I use a 4qt tub w/ 2 qt of vermiculite mixed 1:1 with water by weight.
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Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly

i have to say that when you wave your hands to mix the air, I pictured you flapping your arms like a bird infront of the egg container!
maybe doing a little rain dance for good measure...?!
Lol!
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

OMG I totally see that! How funny.
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1.2 Ghost Corns, Beetlejuice, Casper and Spooky
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Gypsy

Naw - I don't do a rain dance.
Maybe I should though, California really needs it.
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Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly

and I never have to add water.

Let me correct that - last year, I did have a clutch that started denting within a day or two of being laid. in that case, technically I did add water - I soaked some moss, squeezed the water out, and put it over the eggs - they popped back out and I didn't have to do anything else for the duration of incubation.

That is technically adding water though.
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Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly

I used hatchrite in a hovabator but kept water in the bottom of the plastic bottom. There was always a fine steam when I opened the cover weekly for air or to add water. I hatched 21 of 22 eggs. I will try for a second clutch later this year. I didn't see anyone mention water in the bottom of the hovabator, but it was part of the instructions when I bought mine.

Dave

Sorry to hear about that, ...from my experience as well as many others, although eggs can certainly be hatched successfully at temps of 84 and even higher, the likelihood of things that can go wrong will also greatly increases as the temps do. Then you must consider the absolute accuracy of the thermometer being used too, if it is off by a little bit the temp can be just that much higher as well. I've compared several thermometers side by side, and invariably none of the readings are absolutely identical. Even the same thermometer with an indoor and outdoor reading were 1.7 degrees off from one another.

In addition to that, you have to consider over the course of two months a slight temp spike could also occur for whatever reason. Some info also suggests that neonate's incubated at slightly lower temps have more complete yolk absorption, and are more robust than if incubated at the higher temps.

In the past, I have usually kept eggs at a target temp of 81-82, and have had great results,....but this year I'm even going a tad below that,...in the 79.5 to 81 range. It is a good idea in my opinion to have a slight "buffer" that favors a slightly cooler temp than a warmer one. Kinking and such are many times associated with being incubated too warm, although problems certainly also can happen for reasons unknown to us as well.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

could be the temps too high, could have been a spike in the temps causing heat. Maybe the eggs were in contact with too much of the water. Its hard to say. you just have to figure out what was different. If its just the hatch rite stuff, dont use it again.
Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Better luck next year!
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"

Don't be hasty to blame the substrate. I've talked to two large snake breeders that used nothing but Hatchrite this year, and say they will never use anything else again. Blaming the Hatchrite is akin to approaching a vehicle accident, and upon seeing a carrot in the mouth of the rider, presume that the wreck was the result of being under the influence of carotene. Sorry, it was the first analogy that came to mind. The point is, if you used three thermometers per egg clutch, had NO ventilation holes in your containers, used hygrometers to know if it was too wet or too dry, and were certain the sire's sperm was virile, you would have cause for suspecting the substrate was the culprit. In other words, a double-blind study, with sufficient populations of unrelated eggs.

Regarding humidity, it sounds like you had ventilation holes in the container. This is just asking for trouble. I set up egg boxes for over 3,000 eggs this year. I needed to add water to less than ten of those boxes throughout the entire incubation season. NO AIR HOLES. If you like the consistency of the substrate when you set up a box of eggs, why would you risk altering that by letting air IN (and OUT)? As DMong said, you simply "burp" the egg box every few weeks to exchange the air around the eggs. This year, I failed to "burp" about 80 of the egg boxes I set up, and had the exact hatching efficacy that I did with the boxes I did "burp". Mind you, I did not hermetically seal mine as Dmong did. If I had used cellophane (as I successfully have in the past), I would certainly have exchanged the air in the egg boxes at least twice a month during incubation.

I used Hatchrite in a few boxes this year (and last). I was totally satisfied with it. I had to add water to some, but it was because I had opened the bag without completely sealing it between the times I used it.

I just didn't want people to think your problems were the result of using Hatchrite, in the absence of sufficient data of other contributing incubation stumuli.
South Mountain Reptiles

I had no air holes in SEALED containers 70% humidity water in the bottom of the incubator, BURPED conainer once a week, thermostats in every container also used temp gun yada yada yada! Did everything the same with all 3 clutches first clutch 100% hatch and all ate frozen thawed pinklies the day they shed. same sire for all 3 clutches and he was given breaks for 5 days in between and fed twice. I have also spoken to BIG breeders such as Brian @ BHB and he only uses hatchrite for the pythons not on his colubrid eggs. I also spoke to someone at hatchrite before using. I am going to lower temps and go back to vermiculite!

So I guess it is impossible that the females had a bad year?

Seriously, dont blame the hatchrite, I have never heard of one person having a problem with it.
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South Texas Herps

It's unlikely Hatchrite is the problem. I've never seen an incubation medium gain so much approval so quickly.

Most incubators do not cool, they just heat. Therefore if the temperature outside the incubator goes up to 90, then the temperature inside the incubator will probably do the same. This is what is belived to cause deformities.

Also 84 degrees is playing it a little "close to the edge." I incubate at 82 and there's certianly no harm in going a few degrees lower that that.

Tim

I agree with Tim. I keep my incubator right under a window ac and I can keep almost perfect 80 degree temps 24/7.

I had a constant ambient temp of 78degrees in the room with the incubators and all were set up and at constant temps for a week before eggs were put in incubator.

With that type on constant ambient temp I wouldn't have used an incubator at all. Last year I kept the 4 clutchs of eggs in a closed egg box (sterilite shoe box) in the top of my bedroom closet which was also about 78 degrees as well and had about 95% hatch rate.
Peter Jolles of East Coast Colubrids keeps ALL of his stuff the same way in the top of a closet and I believe (but I may be wrong) his ambient temps were around 75. They just took longer to hatch but that was all.

Well, it's human nature to shy away from situations that were negative for us. Some like FORD; some like CHEVY. They're probably both GENERALLY good automobiles, but if we have a bad experience with one, I suppose most of us shy away from that brand; even if you're not sure what caused the problems. I'm that way about cheap paper towels. I use so many everyday, I never go back to the brands that fell apart in my hands.

I think Rob and Louise at Bayou used Hatchrite on all their colubrids this year. Rob told me he had great success with it. He and I don't use incubators. Perhaps that was a contributing element to your problem. The areas in my snake rooms where I hatch eggs are between 82F and 84F. I suppose it's always possible that you got a bad batch of Hatchrite. Something was obviously different, if Rob had superior hatching success using it under thousands of corneggs, and you didn't. Shrug?
South Mountain Reptiles

Hmmm. Hatchrite gave me 100% success rate this year.

incubator........

on
off
on
off
on
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this can screw eggs up

too wet can screw them up too.....real fast.

vermiculite......all we ever need..........wet it and get ir ready months ahead of time....

.....at times stuff just happens..........

just some thoughts
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