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PieAxanthic - the whole story

Markus Jayne Aug 13, 2008 03:24 PM

I will try to do this right one more time. Here is the complete story.

What was at first thought to be a simple breeding of a piebald male to a het piebald female in 2008 turned into the biggest surprise I have ever had in my entire breeding career. With over 300 clutches of eggs spanning 8 years of breeding, I often wondered why nothing unexpected ever popped out. Well that was about to change...Big Time!

First off I do not own any Axanthics nor am I working with any Axanthic genes in my collection. Or so I thought. Ironically I was about to buy a few axanthics and start a few projects with them. This being one of them.

Let's go back to the beginning. In 2002 I purchased a group of 4 possible het piebald females from a broker in New York who purchased them from Steve Roussis. I bred all 4 to my piebald male and after several clutches determined that 2 were piebald hets and 2 were probably not. One of the hets, female 1, produced a piebald male which I kept as my #2 breeder. One of the non hets, female 3, produced all hets of which I kept 2 females. This year I bred my #2 piebald male and one of the daughters of female 3 and got 4 eggs.

These days I let my eggs start to pip on there own. Once a few have piped I will cut the rest. The first egg to pip looked normal under the low light of my walk-in incubator. However when I transferred to clutch to my hatching room I noticed that there was no color to the head and soon discovered that I had an Axanthic in the egg. It hadn't even occurred to me that the next treasure I would find would even be a possibility. All I saw was white with some gray and black blotches....A Piebald Axanthic!!!!!! I was dumb founded, amazed and completely taken back.

After many phone calls and web site searches I felt confident that this was a world first. When I think about the odds it truly is incredible. Most of all because I wasn't even working with Axanthics.

When going back over my records I realized that I had sold of the mother of the mother of this clutch which was a het Axanthic without me knowing. However I have 3 of the originals females still in my collection of which 1 is confirmed a double het in addition to the mother of the clutch.

The clutch ended up having 1.0 Pieaxanthic, 0.1 Axanthic het pied, 1.0 pied 66% poss het Axanthic and 0.1 het Pied poss het Axanthic.

To most of those that have been working on this project for many years and have not achieved your goal, I apologize. To Lady Luck....I thank you very much!

UPDATE: I spoke to Steve Roussis yesterday and he does not have any Axanthic genes in his collection either. The father of the poss het females came from Pete Kahl and to my knowledge Pete was not working with Axanthics either. Steve thinks that the mother could have been a het Axanthic that came out of Africa. What line of Axanthics are they? I don't think I will ever know.

Thanks again for reading and looking!

Markus
Image
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www.ballpython.ca

Replies (18)

jluman Aug 13, 2008 03:47 PM

"What line of Axanthics are they? I don't think I will ever know."

You could pick up some visual or het axanthic females from a few lines to breed into this group to see if they are compatible.
-----
-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

Coldthumb Aug 13, 2008 03:56 PM

Congrats man!...I need some of that kind of luck!..wow!

I can't wait to see that thing at about 500 grams or so...that's one cool piebald.
-----
Charles Glaspie
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/Coldthumb
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=191635543

Gary Schiavino Aug 13, 2008 05:06 PM

Hi Markus;

Congrats on an absolutely phenominal animal!
Now you need to go and purchase a lottery ticket!

I was curious, (I'm getting old. My memory is going) by any chance, did I sell you the poss. hets that were produced by Steve Roussis? I rememeber selling you animals, but I'm embarrased to say I don't remember which ones. (It was quite some time ago)

Sincerely,
Gary Schiavino
New Jersey

Markus Jayne Aug 13, 2008 06:48 PM

Hi Gary,

Yes you did sell them to me and I thank you for that! I spoke to Steve yesterday and all I had in my records was Gary S so I wasn't sure until Steve told me.

Thanks again!

Markus
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www.ballpython.ca

Roussis Reptiles Aug 13, 2008 08:05 PM

Gary remind me to smack you next time I see you for throwing away the away the IDs I gave you with those snakes
-----
Steve Roussis
www.roussisreptiles.com

Gary Schiavino Aug 13, 2008 08:47 PM

Steve,

Smack me if you must, but when it comes to ID's, I always keep and provide all of that info to the buyer. (I usually list it in my ads as well) I'm not pointing fingers at Markus, but I can't believe I would not have provided ID #'s. Especially when the animals in question were hets, and I'm sure Markus would have requested that specific info.

Sincerely,
Gary

Markus Jayne Aug 14, 2008 07:39 AM

I'm sure I got the ID'd. I'm just not sure where I put them. I'll look around and see if I can find them.

Markus
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www.ballpython.ca

Gary Schiavino Aug 14, 2008 08:53 AM

Please keep Steve posted on his ID's so he does not blame me.
We need to keep these New York guys in-line! LOL

Congrats again on an amazing animal!

Gary

Amazonreptile Aug 13, 2008 06:27 PM

Congrats Markus!

Looks to me like they are the MJ line of axanthics.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

Roussis Reptiles Aug 13, 2008 08:03 PM

Markus I always said you were a nice guy but now it seems you must have been a saint to receive such good Karma! Where those genes have been hiding out I have no idea. If you didn’t have the discipline and patience to raise up your own offspring and see it full circle you never would have hit on that so don't write it all off to luck, remember, the harder you work the luckier you get. Congratulations on a spectacular combo!

Steve Roussis
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Steve Roussis
www.roussisreptiles.com

Markus Jayne Aug 14, 2008 08:02 AM

I appreciate it!

Markus
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www.ballpython.ca

leon2ky Aug 14, 2008 01:46 PM

Congrats on the world's 1st and the absolute dumb luck! I truly envy you!

ecdysis Aug 13, 2008 09:52 PM

That snake is beautiful. The axanthic is awesome to. What line of axanthic is it? Good job!

Premium_Reptiles Aug 14, 2008 02:12 AM

Hi Mark,

I think that Steve has discribed exactly why this is happening to you. You guys are great and it was about time!!!

Congrats again!!!

Regards

Steve
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JMPythons Aug 14, 2008 03:43 AM

Hi Markus,

i congratulate you on this great new Morph.

Best wishes from Germany
Jürgen

boxienuts Aug 14, 2008 12:58 PM

Congrats on a fastastic animal, and while I don't know you personally, I have been to your web site several times and it looks like a class act, and I would say, this couldn't have happened to a more desirving person, this certainly makes up for the "scammers" you encountered early on, huh?
-----
Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

darkcontinent Aug 14, 2008 02:41 PM

Those are some amazing looking animals. I hope you played the lottery the day they hatched. You hit some astounding odds with these animals.Good luck.
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Wayne and Ryan
Dark Continent Reptiles
www.darkcontinentreptiles.con

bristen Aug 14, 2008 09:04 PM

>>
>>
>>I will try to do this right one more time. Here is the complete story.
>>
>>What was at first thought to be a simple breeding of a piebald male to a het piebald female in 2008 turned into the biggest surprise I have ever had in my entire breeding career. With over 300 clutches of eggs spanning 8 years of breeding, I often wondered why nothing unexpected ever popped out. Well that was about to change...Big Time!
>>
>>First off I do not own any Axanthics nor am I working with any Axanthic genes in my collection. Or so I thought. Ironically I was about to buy a few axanthics and start a few projects with them. This being one of them.
>>
>>Let's go back to the beginning. In 2002 I purchased a group of 4 possible het piebald females from a broker in New York who purchased them from Steve Roussis. I bred all 4 to my piebald male and after several clutches determined that 2 were piebald hets and 2 were probably not. One of the hets, female 1, produced a piebald male which I kept as my #2 breeder. One of the non hets, female 3, produced all hets of which I kept 2 females. This year I bred my #2 piebald male and one of the daughters of female 3 and got 4 eggs.
>>
>>These days I let my eggs start to pip on there own. Once a few have piped I will cut the rest. The first egg to pip looked normal under the low light of my walk-in incubator. However when I transferred to clutch to my hatching room I noticed that there was no color to the head and soon discovered that I had an Axanthic in the egg. It hadn't even occurred to me that the next treasure I would find would even be a possibility. All I saw was white with some gray and black blotches....A Piebald Axanthic!!!!!! I was dumb founded, amazed and completely taken back.
>>
>>After many phone calls and web site searches I felt confident that this was a world first. When I think about the odds it truly is incredible. Most of all because I wasn't even working with Axanthics.
>>
>>When going back over my records I realized that I had sold of the mother of the mother of this clutch which was a het Axanthic without me knowing. However I have 3 of the originals females still in my collection of which 1 is confirmed a double het in addition to the mother of the clutch.
>>
>>The clutch ended up having 1.0 Pieaxanthic, 0.1 Axanthic het pied, 1.0 pied 66% poss het Axanthic and 0.1 het Pied poss het Axanthic.
>>
>>To most of those that have been working on this project for many years and have not achieved your goal, I apologize. To Lady Luck....I thank you very much!
>>
>>UPDATE: I spoke to Steve Roussis yesterday and he does not have any Axanthic genes in his collection either. The father of the poss het females came from Pete Kahl and to my knowledge Pete was not working with Axanthics either. Steve thinks that the mother could have been a het Axanthic that came out of Africa. What line of Axanthics are they? I don't think I will ever know.
>>
>>Thanks again for reading and looking!
>>
>>Markus
>>
>>-----
>>www.ballpython.ca
-----
___________________________
www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

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