Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These guys are siblings from a 2007 clutch of Escambia County Pituophis. Notice the difference in the two... First photo is the male (showing mugitus influence) and second photo is the female (looking very much lodingi)...

very nice looking animals. Interesting to see the differences within a given clutch! Thanks for taking the time to share those images.

What is the origin of the parents of those snakes? I've seen a lot of Escambia County Pinesnakes but never a black one. Are those two syblings? I've seen Baldwin County mugitus X lodingi intergrades but even there, none of them are ever black.

I would say that unless you personally caught both of the parents, something was misrepresented.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer

Hey Terry,
I got the snakes from a biology professior in SC. He told me that they are decendants of stock caught by Paul Moler in the 1980's. They are siblings from the same clutch. I've seen/kept about a dozen of these since 2005 and two have been lighter like the male pictured above while the rest have been black with varied amounts of banding/speckles.

I appreciate your opinion. I have never herped the area and haven't personally seen any pituophis from the area other than this line, so I have no point of reference. I would say that the source is very reliable, but I agree that unless one caught the original snakes or is close with the individual who caught them, there is always a chance of misrepresentation. Do you have any photos of pines from the area you could post?

Thanks,
Michael

While not Escambia Co. FL, it is from Baldwin Co. AL which borders Escambia Co. this link is from NOAA.
It is from Weeks Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. A intergrade black pine snake and Florida pine snake.
Pretty black.
Ron

BLACK/FLORIDA intergrade

Thanks Ron. Black indeed. I wonder how often they are found in the wild now?

Michael