Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, this is my first post here and being a new member posting about such a controversial animal I can expect some flaming, but I want to get this out of the way first. I DO NOT intend on going out and buying a Croc Monitor tomorrow, next week, or even in the next 7 years. I'm gathering information way in advance on them so I am prepared to deal with them eventually. I have school still and I'm just starting college, going for my Masters in Pharmacy, so I have a pretty heavy load. Now that I have those unpleasantries out of the way, I'd like to introduce myself. Hello, I'm Matt. I'm seeking to stockpile all information on captive conditions needed for caring and possibly even reproducing Varanus salvadorii in captivity. Basically, I am seeking all first-hand experience with them and the specs that current keepers employ for their specimens ex. humidity, basking and ambient temps, amount and variety of food items fed, methods for dealing with them, and any information regarding captive breeding and inducing it. I am aware that they have a very serious bite, likened to that of a T. rex because of the interlocking, scissoring teeth. I am also aware that the other end of the lizard, being the tail, is almost equally painful. I am also aware that they never tame down and I do not seek a puppy dog tame monitor. I expect to have display specimens who will hopefully in time calm down enough to allow me to perform cage duties without the lizards spazzing out. Also, I would like to point out that I have had limited experience with large lizards outside of green iguanas. I volunteered at an aquarium for 2 years and I got experience handling iguanas and large snakes there. I am in school for the next 6 years and I want to get experience on feeding and providing proper humidity for a smaller monitor species that shares the same habits as a crocodile monitor ex semi aboreal and semi aquatic. Can anyone suggest smaller monitors that I can keep in order to eventually work up to crocodile monitors. I was thinking along the lines of Peachthroats or mangrove monitors. Thank you for reading, I'm sorry if I seem offensive, but I'm just a guy seeking information, not flaming.

If housed properly, crocs make excellent captives. I've had my pair for about a year now and they've calmed down tremdously. I can approach them and touch them without any hissing or fussing but I do stay focused and pay attention when I'm around them.

You need to earn their trust on their terms. I never handle them or force myselves on them. I can tell when they don't want me around and I back off.

Here's the tough part:

They require a tremdous ampount of space. My croc enclosure is about 12 x 15 x 12 and I wish it was bigger. This space allows me to enter their enclosure without making them feel corned.

The humidity and enclosure conditions required are not something that I'd want in my home. This is a species that should not be kept by most people. The thought of housing a 7' croc might seem cool but the reality is a lizard that eats a lot, poops a lot, requires decent humidity, and makes a real mess.

Think long and hard about acquiring these guys. The risk of a bite is the least of your worries in my opinion. The real challenge is properly housing one.

Has anyone ever looking into using greenhouses with chainlink fence lining to keep them from attempting to break the glass/plastic panels? Theoretically, would that make maintaining high humidity levels easier?

You need to stop watching Jurassic Park.

Alright, besides the smart comment about Jurassic Park, what are your opinions about that kind of setup? BTW, I preferred Walking with Dinosaurs, much more accurate and detailed in natural history lol.

Forget the Jurassic Park comment- I don't know how you can be so interested in Crocs and not comment on those awesome pics he just posted! I can't get enough of them personally

Susan.

It seems in my haste that I have. Apologies. You have a wonderful pair of crocodile monitors and their obvious good health from the pics designates you skilled at keeping them. Care to share their individual specs like size, diet, temps, and it seems most importantly humidity level?

he isn't to far out on the green house idea john. I used the same idea for my croc and it worked out okay. It made an okay summer enclosure and allowed for alot of room. However there are so many factors that come along with that idea that you are better off finding an alternative setup such as john has. Other then that I agree with 100% of what john said. I have raised my croc from a 1month old baby. He is 4yrs old now and pretty calm most of the time, but you need to keep your gaurd up at all times (as john stated also). Someone told me that blue-tailed monitor acts alot like a croc so that could be a good starting ground for you.
Dustin

The greenhouse is an excellent idea. I was just laughing at the the chainlink fence part and kept thinking of the scene in which the cow was lowered into the velociraptor pen.

Crocs are very large and need to be respected but they're not unmanageable like many believe. Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of people shouldn't have them especially those who are young, live in an apartment, move a lot, don't have a stable job, etc.

I honestly believe that large monitors such as crocs are only really dangerous if housed in small enclosures. Give them plenty of space, hides, and security and they make spectacular captives.

I can walk into my croc cage and they'll go about their business and hardly pay any attention to me. In a small enclosure they need to be handled far too often and, in my opinion, this leads to trust issues. These animals do not like to be handled and will perceive you as a threat if it happens too often. This is how you get hurt.

In warmer climates, such a Gatorhunters home town, an outdoor encloure is probably most practical. Up North, I live in Colorado, we need to keep them indoors 8 months out of the year. I built a barn specifically for reptiles. The large enclosures have no floor. The foundation footers go down 8 feet deep. I have a radiant heat system buried 4-5 feet under the substrate with chicken wire covering the hot water pipes preventing the animals from burrowing into them.

This heat system allows me to control the temperature of the substrate which I believe is as critical as the ambient temp. In addition, the lack of a floor allows for natural drainage. I can soak these enclosure and the water drains into the ground as it would outside. The footers are well below frost line so the substrate is always warm. It can be zero degrees outside and I can easily maintain ground temps in the 80's.

The enclosure walls are covered with FRP. I have trees that have been cut in half and mounted to the walls. The basking lights hang over branches extending from these trees. The enclosure also has a dog door leading to a large outdoor enclosure in the summer.

What's been really exciting for me is watching these enclosures become their own micro-habitats. I've had Lace monitor eggs hatch in the enclosure without any artificial incubation. I believe this is due to my ability to control substrate temperatures and the natural drainage of the enclosure. These enclosures never smell as they're full of rollie pollies, earth worms, beetles, micro organisms, etc. I even have breeding Tokay geckos and house geckos in these enclosures that keep the insect population under control.

These conditions are nearly impossible to duplicate in one's home. To summarize (sorry for the long e-mail)a green house or barn type set up is ideal. An outdoor enclosure is also a great idea in warmer climates. Think twice before bringing really large lizards into your home. No matter how hard you try they will smell and will become a handful.

Hatchling Lacies emerged from here:

These eggs were buried about 4 feet underground:

Here's the dog door:

Outdoor pen:

Look what popped up out of the ground:

6 1/2 foot croc:

5 1/2 foot Lace:

Radiant heat boiler:

Looks good like always John. I have always loved your setups. I agree with you on space. I think that is the most important thing when it comes to dealing with a croc monitor. Someone should plan for a walk-in enclosure when thinking about crocs as captives. I used to have 6 1/2 ft wc croc monitor in a normal reach in through the front cage (back in my more inexperinced day) and still have a lovely scar from a bite that occured due to the fact the monitor felt it was corned. Live and learn! Yea the chain link is a little out there. Welded wire with 2in holes works pretty good for big crocs. Chain link gives to much and gapped to large. Lol jurassic park, now that you say that it does put the imagine in my head. To bad crocs done make some crazy feeding noises like that haha. Florida does help for outside caging, however my green house setup was when I lived in oklahoma. Oklahoma has crappy winters just like you have and I also kinda went the same route you did. I had a shed built just for reptiles just so I could have more control over elements.

Gatorhunter, in your opinion could a greenhouse work in colder climates if radiant heating was used during the colder months? Thank you for the information on bluetails, I will certainly look into that. JME, your setup is truly ingenious and it obviously must be perfect for your animals if they are breeding and the eggs hatch out from the original nest. Excellent setup, excellent monitors, and excellent photographs.

Scizzle: In my opinion it could maybe work in colder climates but there are so many factors that come into play. Building a shed/barn would be your best be. You can insulate, have better control over heat and cold, worry less about weather, etc. You would assume building a greenhouse enclosure could save you money but in the long run it cost alot more to keep maintained and working properly. We used greenhouses in oklahoma (which can have bad winters) for our plants and they were times it could be a pain trying to keep a greenhouse above 55f when it was 20f or lower for an extended period of time (I used to be a landscaper). Greenhouses can even be a pain in the a$$ in the summer as they can reach 120f inside on a 90f day. Then you have to run fans and find ways to keep it cool so you are not overheating your monitor. Best choice is a well built, well insulated, shed or barn with a walk-in enclosure.
Dustin

Thank you for the insight. Scratch that idea then. Living in the midwest, we have constant extremes in weather and a greenhouse would be a pain to manipulate to make it retain a croc's desired climate. JME, could you please clarify your setup for me as I'm a bit confused. when you say footers do you mean that there are concrete walls extending 8 feet below the surface of the ground? Or is there another way you keep the animals from burying under the walls?

Concrete walls extending 8 feet underground.

JME, while on my quest to gather information about captive breeding, I came across a post you made on another forum about your crocs copulating for a 5 day period straight. Did anything ever come out of that?

Here are the results. Hopefully she nests well.

Sorry about the huge pics. I need to resize them.

Sorry for not posting before. For some reason, the pics refused to load. Now they will load and I see a gravid croc monitor. Congratulations and I hope you will keep us updated in the future. It seems your setup is providing an ideal environment for them. I'm curious to know if you mist them? I used to volunteer at an aquarium that kept large green iguanas and we regularily used a very low pressure washer to provide them the necessary humidity. Do you use one as well?