Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some quick photos I took of the red/easterns that hatched here last week. I'll take some better pics once they shed. These came out of the egg at 9" long... is that the normal size of L. t. t.?

My clutch of syspila also started to hatch, the first one out was from a small egg. My female laid four eggs total, two were the size of jelly beans and the other two the size of a AA battery. One of the small eggs went bad but the other hatched. Its a small one, about the size of elapsoides that I've hatched in the past.

Here is a comparison view:

dg

This red milk crawled out of the egg while I was making the post above! Much bigger and colorful than the first little guy, IMHO.

Sorry for the excitement, this is my first time hatchling these guys. Thanks for looking!

dg

.
-----

Doug L

>>.
>>-----
>>
>> Doug L

Wow!!! That last little guy out is amazing! Very beautiful snake... well done!

As for the eastern/red hatchling -- it's a beast. I have some neonate syspila not much bigger than an 'average' elapsoides at least by FL standards. Also some neonate eastern milks that are barely 6 inches if that @ all. So yeah that hatchling of your is a monster... how did you incubate them if you don't mind me asking??

Thanks and congrats!

Chris

>>As for the eastern/red hatchling -- it's a beast. I have some neonate syspila not much bigger than an 'average' elapsoides at least by FL standards. Also some neonate eastern milks that are barely 6 inches if that @ all. So yeah that hatchling of your is a monster...

Thanks. All three red/easterns were that size, about 9". They are also very fat and almost look "pinheaded" right out of the egg.

>>how did you incubate them if you don't mind me asking??

I incubated them on the floor (concrete) of my snake room in coarse vermiculite. I usually err on the "too dry" side versus too wet. My snake room can reach temps of 87 F in the summer but I don't think the eggs actually get that warm on the floor. I don't heat the room, so I get a natural nighttime temperature drop. Other than that, I guess I just got lucky.

dg

Actually your way sounds akin to mine... no incubator. This year I used almost exclusively 'hatchrite' though next year I may revert back some years and use sphagnum moss again... also done @ snake room temp. No sense in hurrying these guys out of their eggs. Though I have no predictability really my hatchlings have seemed somewhat larger... most of them anyhow. Again though great lookin' red!!! Simply an outstanding snake!!

Chris

Great work, Dwight. Those are all awesome, especially the one that hatched from the mini-egg. That last syspila that hatched out is OUTSTANDING!

Dave
DNS Reptiles

Thanks Dave!

dg

Your reds are outstanding. Congrats on the hatchlings.
-----
Joe

Thanks Joe, best of luck to you with that albino eastern project.

dg

In my eagerness to post, I may not have provided enough info on the triangulum hatchlings. In summary, I have two pair of adult milks, one pair of red milks and one pair of what I'm calling red/eastern milks. I'm assuming they are intergrades but don't know for sure since I don't know their exact origins.

Anyway, here are pics of the adults that I'm calling red/easterns. First is this "female" that I picked up from Jeff Schofield a few years back. "She" is unique in the fact that "she" is equipped with hemipenes and fathered the clutch of red/easterns that I hatched this year. Here is "her" picture:

And here are pics of the female that "she" was bred to and laid eggs:

From this pairing I got six eggs, three of which hatched. I posted the pics above, but for clarity's sake here is what their offspring look like:

On to the syspila... I have a pair of these as well. The male is of unknown locale and the female is a WC animal from Calloway County, KY. Here is their picture, male is on the right:

From this pair I got 4 eggs, three of which went full term. The two animals pictured below are actually siblings:

One more syspila is still in the egg.

Sorry for any confusion and thanks again for looking,
dg

Dwight,.....ALL of those animals are outstanding!...REALLY!, and the "Dike" Eastern you got from Jeff is killer too!, but that little orange syspila is just BREATH-TAKING!!.....WOW!

Thanks for all the nice details that went along with those great shots!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Here are some more pics that I just took.

Here is a photo of one of the red/eastern hatchlings, they are actually 10" long from snout to tailtip!

And here are the eggs that all the triangulum came out of. The three eggs on the left are the red/eastern eggs and the four eggs on the right are the syspila eggs. You can see one of the small eggs is obviously infertile and you can also see one syspila yet to emerge.

And finally here is a comparison shot of the two sibling syspila. Quite a difference is size, but the eggs themselves were also quite different.

dg

What a Monster that orange syspila is compared to the other sibling! That orange one should be an absolute STUNNER after it sheds!...man!

Those triangulum are really BIG! at 10 inches too!.....again, great stuff!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

yup that does it.... just wow. I got jipped this season... lol!

Chris

Thanks for the info... how large are your pair errr intergrade 'ladies?' I've seen syspila that greatly resemble the dam though I'm not an expert. Also I have and have seen some easterns that look similar to the sire... errr your female with hemis! Still a very interesting combination... loving the hatchling size -- especially since it's consistent!!

Thanks again,

Chris

I was amazed at the very robust size of those little "porker's" as well..LOL!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

>>Thanks for the info... how large are your pair errr intergrade 'ladies?' I've seen syspila that greatly resemble the dam though I'm not an expert. Also I have and have seen some easterns that look similar to the sire... errr your female with hemis! Still a very interesting combination... loving the hatchling size -- especially since it's consistent!!

Chris,
The "female" with hemipenes is a slender 34" long and the female without hemipenes is a chunkier 35".

And Jeff "the biologist" if you are out there reading this you know I am just poking fun at you and don't mean anything by it. LOL.

dg

My easterns adults are between 24 - 27 inches. 34 - 35 is monsta huge.




these four are from new york about 45 mins north of new york city
-----

Doug L

Those are some sweet animals as well!, Dougster!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Very nice... very interesting variance with these guys up that a way. Thanks for posting the pics... I never get tired of eastern milks as well! Like to reiterate how nice that St. Mary's of yours is as well...

Chris

Those "integrades" are much larger than yearling easterns that I have found in MA, and look very unlike true easterns. The first was found in July of this year, and the albino in June of last year. I am assuming that both of them were hatched the previous summer/fall. Your integrade hatchlings are MONSTERS compared to these two yearlings!

-----
Joe

That is probably due to some syspila influence,....the record length is 42 inches for syspila!

And BOY!, has that little amel grown!!!..LOL!....so glad to see it doing well!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I just looked up the record length for triangulum, and it seems to be 52 inches!...GEEEZ!, what a mutant monster!

I wonder what the longest Eastern Jeff S. has ever seen?, for example his "Monster Islands".

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Fantastic stuff, Dwight! Those "intergrade" animals are huge! I'll second Chris in saying that I've seen muted syspila that look strongly like your first "female" (LOL - classic stuff). Often, animals from Iowa have that look. I'd attribute it to genetic influence from nominate triangulum. The second (real) female is what I'd consider a classic intergrade between syspila and triangulum. The head pattern is conneted to the first dorsal blotch, which is characteristic of nominate triangulum, but the pattern on the flanks is much more syspila in that it comes closer to forming bands. While syspila often have some secondary, ventro-lateral blotches (lower sides), L.t.triangulum generally have sizeable ones that can reach quite high on the sides. I've included a few photos at the end to illustrate this. So... I'd say your assessment of those snakes is correct.

Re: the smokin' syspila... wow! That's a killer looking adult pair, and some FANTASTIC neonates! That large, orange-hued stunner reminds me of some of the old Illinois line animals we still see archived photos of from time to time. Nice animals, and well done!

-Cole

Here's a classic, generic, Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum

Here's a typical Jefferson Co., MO L.t. syspila

That MO red is nice!

dg