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Check this girl out. Pics speak for themselves. The first one was taken and sent to me by the guy I got her from. The following 6, I just took myself 10 minutes ago. She shed last night, so I wanted to get some good shots of her. But she's only been here for 5 days, and I pester her enough, so I didn't really want to get her out and bother her anymore than I already do. I'm a little bit psyched about her, so I've been checking on her every few hours. I feel sorry for her eggs if I'm already doing this just to her. She's a solid 5 feet, and weighs about 3500 grams. She should be on a motivational poster for "Potential".

Sorry, never used Photobucket on here before.

just messing with you. she looks healthy, i bet you got plans for her already.

but i have a question for you.............did you buy her as a proven "Phantom" (parent mom/dad is a Phantom) or a possible Phantom (unproven)?

it doesn't make sense to me why someone would sell out a female that big whether if she's a Phantom or not? a ball of that size will give a really good sized clutch.

Pitoon

Nothing exciting. It's just...clear. But I will get some of her belly and sides later. She's unproven at this point. But I really have no doubt whatsoever she will prove out. Tell ya the truth, I have no idea why anyone would wanna get rid of a female like this, but I'm not complaining. And I have no reason to believe she's not 100% healthy.

I'm breeding her to a YB this year. Hopefully if everything works out, then I'll have a YB Phantom male to breed back to her and I'll end up with Supers and YB Supers (I know, wishful thinking). Lucy's aren't a high priority for me, but of course they'll be down the road too.

I AGREE with these guys on this one. I am not seeing some of the right traits either, other than the pattern similiarity ALOT of the other traits are either missing or the markers look wrong to me.. I would suspect the belly wouldn't be right based on the rest of the animal as well.. I guess I may be wrong as my Mystics even though PROVEN fully genetic have a small chance they aren't phantoms, even if the Mystics do look identical to Phantoms there is still that "possibility" that they are some new morph on it's own that just happen to mimic the phantom phenotype.. Don't get me wrong, I highly doubt that's the case with the Mystics but hey it's possible, that is EXACTLY the reason I didn't call them Phantoms from day one...... Once the Pastel Mystic is here to compare to the Pastel Phantom it should all start to come together as to what I'm working work. The Super Mystic is the ultimate way to prove it , but if the crosses (Spider, YB , Pastel) look like RDR Phantom crosses it would sure put alot of evidence on the table leaning towards Phantom genetics.. Anthony McCain.

Well then apparently my eyes work differently than everybody else's. She looks exactly like your 3rd pic. Here's a NERD pic that was being discussed down the page. Guess we'll find out next year. I highly doubt I'm going to be disappointed.

Sorry I disagree, the blushing on yours is different (wrong in my opinion), the overall coloration is off, she has no "hooks" or weird markings on her back (just partial Striped) like Phantoms generally do.. I would also be willing to bet her belly isn't like the pic I just posted , and also that she lacks green eyes , phantoms have eyes that look like Mojave eyes.. I think yours looks more like a Harlequin than a Phantom. I'd say whoever you got her from knows Phantoms better than you, that's why they sold it and didn't just keep it..

I bred a female like yours to a Mystic last summer , I did produce some crazy Mystics , BUT didn't make a "Super" with her, she even had weird "hooks" on her back and looked like a phantom in "some" ways but she isn't one, 8 eggs likely would have hit on a Super if she was..

I have a pretty good eye for this morph and I will say Pitoon has one that looks REAL close to what one should look like but this one you have is about a 5 1/2-6 on a 10 scale.. Pitoons would be an 7 1/2 - 8 on the same scale to me.. I would also rank a Mystic as a 9-9 1/2 on the same scale, likely it's higher than that for those who know what they are looking at but just to be safe that's where I put them at today.. Ask me that 1-10 scale question in about 40 more days and it may even go up a little higher based on what I'm seeing in the way of a Pastel Mystic. Anthony McCain.

I don't know what you mean by "hooks".

Not all Phantoms or Mystics have "Hooks" but when an unproven potential animal has them it is a big bonus.. When I hatch out Mystics without the Hooks it doesn't bother me since I already know what to look for overall.. Look just above the tip of the nose on this snake's body and you'll see the hook in the dorsal pattern.. That was an exceptional Mystic, not all of the Mystics turn out that pretty they do vary alot.. Like I said it isn't a requirement but when you see "hooks" on an unproven Ball most would consider that a "good sign" your working with something genetic.. Anthony McCain.

That's cool. I see. Honestly though, that snake looks really "normal" to me. Haha. Guess it's all perception. Either way, she's an amazing looking HUGE female. I can't wait to see what she can do. To me, that's what keeps it fun. Wondering and trying to figure out if it's real or not.

Your totally right about keeping it fun .. The way I would look at it is you have an animal that may prove out to be what you hope for and as long as you just have fun with it even if she doesn't prove out to be a phantom she may still make some incredible stuff for you.. It's just not a good idea to jump the gun and say she is a phantom before she even lays eggs, I think that is what alot of people were trying to tell you here.. It wasn't so much what she looked like , it was that you were calling her a morph without knowing what she will make for babies first... Anyway I do hope she does well and does prove out for you , if she does make visual babies be sure to set the record straight and tell us what she must be at that point! Until then , just enjoy the ride getting you there and relax a bit! Anthony McCain..

Oh, I was doing that on purpose. I know it's near impossible to read sarcasm, especially that subtle, but what do I care? That's what I hope she proves to be, and I do believe I see something in her. But overall, I just feel like I have a really awesome female to breed in a few months, and I'm enjoying it.

look at the back on my female.........she has about 6 hooks and about 4 or 5 donuts that someone took a bite out of

these markers are just something to look out on in regards to something being genetic. not 100% true all the time, but these markers due tend to prove out a morph.

Pitoon

"The Super Mystic is the ultimate way to prove it , but if the crosses (Spider, YB , Pastel) look like RDR Phantom crosses it would sure put alot of evidence on the table leaning towards Phantom genetics"

For what little it's worth I also agree that the Mystic seems to have a good chance of proving in the white snake complex. I had originally hoped my girl that is more like Ryan's was a phantom but now that I've seen mojave in person I see the high contrast color and pattern differences between a white snake complex animal and my Garcia. For one the very triangular Cyclops alien eyes in the white snake complex vs. more round or long dark spots in the light side areas on other animals. And thanks for the eye color tip, that makes a lot of sense.

However, I think an important step to proving mystic would be to breed it to a lesser and be sure it makes a white snake like phantom does. Of course the super mystic is also very important as that is the really unique thing about phantoms that separates them from the several other members of the white snake complex. Breeding to a lesser would at least establish if mystic is in the white snake complex until a super mystic can be hatched to establish if it has the unique phantom homozygous version.

Also, does anyone know if a mojave has been bred to a proven line phantom yet to confirm that combo is white? Sounds like maybe not too many people working with proven phantoms yet and at least in the RDR case I don't think working with Mojave also.

Randy, I am still trying to get eggs from a 05 Mojave by using a Mystic on her . She is a virgin and about 1600 grms , she is short and stout but hasn't ovulated yet with about 5-6 good lock ups with my 05 Mystic breeder male.. Not sure what the outcome would be as a Super Mojave isn't really a true Leucistic in my eyes with that grey head and yellow cast on a "mostly" white snake, the "Super" of the 2 morphs could be quite perplexing as in my eyes the Super Mojave is a perfect intermediate between the Leucistics and the Super Phantom, not genotypically speaking but phenotypically it is anyway. Out of all the Lesser complex morphs only the Super Phantom has more pigment/pattern than the Super Mojave , and the Super Mojave is second in line in the pigment department. I guess actually the Crystal Ball has more pigment than a Super Mojave but that project is still "under construction" as to what is going on there genetically to be able to reproduce more Crystals, another topic, another thread needed on that one .. That being said it could be quite interesting to see what happens when a Mystic and Mojave line up to make a Super.. If I don't get it figured out this year I'll try again next with more Mojaves .. It needs to be done I think ,as I think it may actually explain alot.. Anthony McCain..

We need a morph hunter's guide to Phantoms. They're quite subtle aren't they?
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

What am I missing?
Not trying to be an ass but unless there's something hidden on the belly or underside I think I might have a few of those.
Looks very normal to me.

Scott

I have a female that looks almost exactly like her... i never thought she could be a phantom... maybe i should post pics and let people judge for themselves...

Im waiting to see what happens with Mystics before i do a guide to Phantoms. If the Mystics prove to be Phantoms, then i will do a guide. If not then i will wait til real Phantoms are more readily available. I would never want to hurt someone who invested in a project, i see no reason to do guides on animals until the people who need my guides would be willing to buy one. I care about both the investment breeders and the hobbyiest. On a side note i would not consider myself an expert on Phantoms. I have yet been able to study a real one. I do have 3 females that may well be (2 i feel very strongly about)If they prove, then i would be sure i know what the key traits are. The Phantom is another tough one... very variable. I would say the OP's animal is most likely not one, but i could be worng.
Hope this helps
Jon
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Thanks
Jon Dvoretz
Next World Exotics
www.nextworldexotics.com

The Hunters Guide to the Morphs
www.nextworldexotics.com/hg.htm

Makes sence to me! The birth of a Super Mystic that is some variation of a Purple snake would be the ticket , then you should write up a Phantom guide! Anthony McCain...

The flames don`t look right to be a phantom. Just my opinion. Let us know what you find out when you breed her.

You might be jumping the gun a bit calling that one a phantom, but hey, I don't have any phantoms and I'm no expert. She does remind me of one of my breeders:

I bred her to a mojave this year and she produced some nice babies, here's a few:

Good luck with her next season.
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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

i think she looks like a normal

Before claiming high and low that you just bought an adult 3500gr 5ft female Phantom, should you not try and prove her out before?

She looks like a nice blushing normal female to me!

Good luck with her