Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know it's my fault but I may have listened to 1 post too many. I've read on this site that newly caught snakes sometimes eat mice that are dead for 2 days and start smelling. I gave them a newly thawed mouse and left it in for 2 days. I did this twice and they didn't eat it. I also misted my copperheads once a week and kept them on fir bark with a fairly large water dish. Well now all three of my northerns and possibly my southern have blister disease.I called Albert Killian and he told me he doesn't ever mist his copperheads and never let food stay in the cage for 2 days. It obviously grows bacteria. Well it's too late for me but maybe I could save one of you guys from going through what I am. I was told to clean the cage and just use newspaper and remove the water and after 2 days use a small water dish and after a couple hours, remove it.I was also told to wipe Betadine on the entire snake. And if the blister gets bigger, to scrape it off as best I can and then use the Betadine solution again. Has anyone had experience with this disease? If you beat this disease, What treatment did you use? Any help would be greatly appreciated.I really like these animals and will do what ever I can to save them. I tried calling my vet at his home and didn't get a call back yet. It's hard to find a vet that works on venomous.

As for the setup of your snakes, I have used fir bark for many, many species of snakes for several years now, and have not had problems with skin. I do mist some of them(depending on species) on occasion, but only enough to cause a temporary rise in humidity. Constant wetness is what causes bacteria growth. Unless its absolutely needed for the species, no part of the cage should be wet all the time. I dont think too many north american snakes require that high of humidity. My opinion anyhow.
Perhaps you need more ventilation, and/or let water. Most of my fir filled cages have 1/4" hardware cloth tops for good ventilation. In rack systems, I use aspen.
I have also gotten several stubborn feeders onto mice or rats by leaving prekilled rodents in the cage for up to 30 hours, and some of them have waited to take them until that point. As time goes on, they eat them sooner and sooner. No problems as of yet, although if the rodent seems to start really stinking too fast, I remove it sooner.
So, I dont know what to recommend as for the blisters (other than ultra clean dry caging until they shed a couple times to heal it up), but I thought I'd share my experience with fir, misting, and dead rodents. Hope this helps, and hopefully some of the others here know more about the blisters themselves.

Thankyou for your time to reply. If it's not the 2 day old mice that caused it, then I really don't know what else could cause it. I didn't mist very frequently and I always remove fecal matter asap. Please, anyone with more info, please chime in. Thanks in advance, Brian.

Also, I'd like to mention that I have had venomous snakes for over 10 years and have never had this problem. The only thing I did do different was the 2 day dead mice.So I'm still at a loss of what caused it for sure but I have to say that I can't dismiss the mouse theory so I won't be doing that again.

Silvadine will cure it. I had a Boelen's python that recently had a case. All better!

I can't say that I say that I know much about what we call "blister disease", but I have had various snakes over the years suffer from it and it seems (to me) to be caused mostly by too high humidity. Too little ventilation, of course contibutes to keeping the humidity high. I would be surprised if the mice were a significant factor, but yeah, 2 days might be a bit long.

The good news is that it has almost always cleared up simply by keeping the cage dry and if necessary, improving ventilation. Usually, the "blisters" will come off with the next shed.

I wouldn't mist coppers unless they have problems shedding.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

Well, I'm no expert, and I'm certainly not Albert Killian (I had to look him up on the net, I had no idea who he was) but I'd say that eating a rotten pinky puts a snakes internal biology at risk for infection, and a blister is an external problem, so I doubt they're related.
The snake takes the 30 hour old pinky voluntarily. I think speaks for itself. It just happened to me last night. I have a brand new baby pictigaster and I offered food for the first time. It didnt eat the thawed fuzzy until it'd been in the tank for about 18 hours or so. It's what works, and I've had no health problems from doing this with other coppers.
I hope the snake recovers quickly. Hopefully the betadine and a few sheds will clear it up, assuming the root cause is gone.

For anyone unfamiliar with the practice of rotten pinkies for baby copperhead food, it sure does sound wrong, I'll admit that. Until I hear about actual evidence that this practice is bad for the snake in some way though, I'll continue to do it until the snakes wean themselves off the rotten-ness.

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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

I want to thank you guys for the replies. Maybe the cause wasn't the 2 day old mouse. It could have been caused by the fact that the snakes were constantly looking for a way out of the cage and kept going in and out of the water, causing the substrate to be constantly wet. Either way, I'd really appreciate hearing from people who have beating this disease. I'd like to know what worked for them. I'm VERY concerned about my animals. Thanks again, Brian.

Can you get us pictures of the blisters?
I've pulled kingsnakes out from under tins in the early spring where they've been sitting in wet conditions for a while and they're all blistered up and looking quite fugly. 2 sheds later and they're perfectly fine looking. All they got was a warm cage, dry bedding (aspen) and a few meals.
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

>>It could have been caused by the fact that the snakes were constantly looking for a way out of the cage and kept going in and out of the water...

Yes, that seems to be a common cause. That's one of the reasons I like to use smaller water bowls than most people for snakes that doen't need to soak regularly. The smaller the bowl, the less often they pass through it and the more likely they are to crawl over it without actually getting in the water.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

Forgot to mention that if you use too small of a bowl they may turn it over, so it may take a little triel and error.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

Blisters are probably a combination of bacteria and excessive wetness. Some snakes are fairly susceptible to it while others are not. In the wild a snake can bask in the sun for hours and that kills a lot of germs on their skin, and they get to “dry out”. In a small cage there is not so much choice available for the snake to get away from the conditions that might be causing this. I believe in nature some snakes go through wet seasons where they have this problem and then it probably cures itself during the drier seasons. Some probably die too. You want to create the conditions in captivity that limit this condition, obviously, and mimic the dry season. You can treat the blisters with triple antibiotic or something so they don’t get worse, clean the cage real good and keep it dry and sanitary. Basic stuff. They will eventually clear up with a shed or two. They usually will shed really faster than normal as if trying to clear it up themselves.
The two day old food item will probably not hurt the snake, but again in a captive situation you could be creating a poisonous environment within a small cage where the snake can not move away from the bacteria and might have to crawl through it and live in it. In the wild a snake might eat a fairly rank road kill but would move away from it and any ill effects would come from inside, not out. It also could kill the snake. You want to eliminate those things that might end in “it kills the snake”.

Thanks people for your thoughts and tips. From what you guys are saying, I'm hopeful that I'm correct in thinking my beautiful animals aren't doomed. Man, I'd be crushed. He are some pics of the blisters. Any feedback is welcomed.

Just thought I'd add the fact that my animals are darker than normal due to the Betadine

You caught it early. I've seen snakes where probably every fifth scale was blistered and they recovered easily. Yours look very minor. Just keep things clean and dry for a while.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

Thanks Larry, I had no idea what stage it was in. I appreciate the encouraging words.

I found this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3A4I3KOjqQ

I'm already not impressed by this guy. But....whatever
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

He's a hell of a nice guy that has done alot more than most to educate the public to preserve and respect reptiles. And if you ever met him, you would find that he would help you in any way he can.