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Mexicana hybrids/integrates-feeding prob

Nightfall Aug 19, 2008 03:10 PM

pure Mexicana are hard to come by over here, in Israel. However I do have a hybrid PyromelanaX Thayeri female. This year I paired her with a male from my friend, a Mexi mexi X Thayeri:

(the yellow and red is the female), This was my first time breeding and luck would have it. 5 little babies emerged, 3 of which remained here, 2 went to the male's owner. Here are pics of 4 out of the 5.




It's been two weeks since their shed and they show no interest in pinkies. After 5 failed attempts I tried to hold them and tease-feed them. Again, no luck. They spat it out immidiately.

I have tried putting them in a Dellicup with the thawed pinkie overnight- nothing. Tried putting it in their small plastic terrarium- they slept on it, but no munching.
Generally I wouldn't be so concered but a friend who has been breeding snakes from this complex explained to me that if they do not eat within a month, it will start being an issue.
Furethermore, the last snake's pic is one of the ones who remained. I love him but he is tiny compared to his siblings. I'm afraid that he won't make it if he doesn't eat soon.

I don't have geckos/lizards handy...
Is that my only chance? am I being over-worried?
Any ideas and tips would be helpful.

Thank you,
Oren

Replies (7)

Step11 Aug 19, 2008 03:39 PM

First of all let me to tell you that I like your snakes in spite of little bit crazy and probably not exactly meant origin.. But they are here and they are nice!!

Before forced feeding I would recommend to get mastomys pinkie and split it lateraly (to get brain and all inside orgs splited) and offer these halves in small cup in max dark.. for me it's working in 90% cases. If not mastomys pinkie available then normal white lab mouse pinkie is ok, but mastomys is far better.

Pls keep me/us posted. I would like to know further development
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Radim Soukup
www.kingsnake.cz
Czech Republic, EU

Nightfall Aug 19, 2008 03:55 PM

Thanks,
The breeding of mexi to mexi and creating these integrates/hybrids existed for a while here in Israel- we even have a definion/name for them. We call them Megabanded.

The parents are second or even third generation of such crosses and as you can see- very fertile.
I have no intention of mixing these with pure sp snakes. I have a pure Durango for instance which I will not be mating with the female...
As for the rodent you mentioned, it's not available here.

I think of bringing a small leopard gecko for scenting purposes... to raise her as a pet, but also as a scenting tool for stubborn feeders.

thoughts?

Step11 Aug 19, 2008 04:04 PM

Should work I guess.. but need to be fed more times than snakes I suppose.. That's what I like on snakes.. meal once a week is enough.. In past I had a few demanding animals where 5x a day was minimal need.. so I quite enjoy snakes in this matter now..
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Radim Soukup
www.kingsnake.cz
Czech Republic, EU

Step11 Aug 19, 2008 03:40 PM

Btw, last one and mummy are my favourites
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Radim Soukup
www.kingsnake.cz
Czech Republic, EU

jlassiter Aug 19, 2008 07:06 PM

I'm not real fond of mexicana hybrids, but if you wanna get them to feed here are some steps I used to use every year.

Step 1: Offer live newborn pinkie. If it is refused then....

Step 2: Offer brained, live pinkie. The brained pinkie is cut from snout to base of skull. If it is taken, reduce the incision each time until it is no longer necessary to stimulate feeding. If it is refused then....

Step 3: Offer the brained, live pinkie under a dark, nontranslucent bowl with the stubborn feeder. Cover the snake and the prey and check in about 30 minutes or so. This has been the most effective method w/o scenting involved. If the snake refuses then...

Step 4: I lizard has to be obtained. I use Med. House Geckos. Freeze the lizard in a deep freeze right away for about 1 hour. Get a live newborn pinky and put the frozen mouse and a pink in a container together and remove from freezer. The warmth of the pinkie will absorb the scent. Place it under a dark bowl with the snake and check in about 30 minutes or so. If the snake refuses then....

Step 5: Thaw out the lizard and cut its abdomen open. Dip the head of the pinkie into the guts of the lizard. Place some skin from the lizard on the pinky's head and place under the dark bowl with the snake. If this fails then....

Step 6: Most people would go ahead and repeat all the steps above for about 6 to 8 weeks until they get results. If the stubborn feeder does not feed then drop its temps to around 55 or 60 degrees for about 6 to 8 weeks. After removal from the temps repeat all the steps above.
Other people would feed then small lizards or lizard parts. I have had luck feeding them about 4 to 5 lizard meals then scenting pinks with such lizards. I have also had luck hibernating and then feeding. Remember if you start forcefeeding you will have to continue to do so to keep weight on the snake. It also stresses the snake out and it is harder to get them to start feeding on their own. Also, forcefeeding will kick in their metabolism and they will need to keep eating to keep on weight. They can live for months on the eggyolk absorbed in the egg. Just letting them wait on a winter cooling usually helps alot for spring feeding. I hear of people forcefeeding mouse tails successfully, but I have never even attempted it. The only force feeding I have done has had a low percentage of success. I have blended pinkies and used pinky pumps. I have even used Veal Gerbers baby food mixed with Pedialyte and Multivitamins successfully, but again it stressed the snake.

Many breeders use the technique below: Quoted from a Dan Vermilya post years back.........

I have lot's of success simply tease feeding juv thayeri with a F/T pink. Hold the snake in your left hand at mid-body, grab a pink with foreceps and tap the snake on the nose and neck with the pink. Once the snake grabs the head, release the pink, let the snake dangle for a few seconds with the pink in his mouth, then very slowly lower the snake into his shoebox....and DON'T MOVE! Once the head is down the throat then you can step back or put the box back on the shelf without the snake spitting it out. I recommend dimming the lights too....don't tease feed under bright light.

One other technique from an old friend: Quoted from a Chris Garcia post a year or so back.......

Finally a friend reminded me of an old trick I'd forgotten about. It really works better for cornsnakes but it did the trick for me in this instance. I dipped the pinky in chicken broth. She took it the first time.

Good Luck with getting them to feed,
John Lassiter

pikiemikie Aug 19, 2008 11:45 PM

You should post on Hybrid forum. That's what it's there for.

sean1976 Aug 22, 2008 01:20 AM

Even if you disagree on the topic of hybrids, which I am not defending or attacking, the actual subject of the original post was specific to Mexicana not to hybrids. The hybrids just inherited the feeding habits of the Mexicana parent stock.

Sean.
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