Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's the scenario...8 good eggs last year...all hatched. 9 eggs this year from the same pairing...all appeared good. Eleven weeks have passed and they don't look like they're going to make it... Temps, incubation substrate, everything was the same as I've used successfully for the past three years. Eggs looked good when laid.

Anyone have any idea on what went wrong so I can avoid it next time?

Thanks,
Michael

I'd cut one open for a look see.
There's a chance they were not fertile to begin with or stopped developing at some point or simply could not cut the shell. Drives me nuts too and if anybody has words of wisdom for Michael, I'd love to hear it too!
Jeff

>>Here's the scenario...8 good eggs last year...all hatched. 9 eggs this year from the same pairing...all appeared good. Eleven weeks have passed and they don't look like they're going to make it... Temps, incubation substrate, everything was the same as I've used successfully for the past three years. Eggs looked good when laid.
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>>Anyone have any idea on what went wrong so I can avoid it next time?
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>>Thanks,
>>Michael
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I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way. - Robert Frost, 1935

Yeah,..I have to go along with Jeff on that one. At 8 weeks(77 days) at those temps, I think I would take a peek too. And although there can be many reasons for this happening, eggs can certainly sometimes be a little too thick or tough for the neonates to cut at times. I've heard several people say they had full-term hatchlings this year that were dead in the egg that took a little too long to hatch, and the inside of the eggs were sliced up by the snake on the inside, but didn't quite penetrate to the outside of it.

Good luck!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

hmmmm,...I thought the temps were mentioned, but I see they weren't (D'oh!).....so what were the temps anyway?

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I've always thought that the eggs are the most challenging aspect to breeding Lampros.
The neonates that are fully formed and were unable to slice out of the eggs indicate that the shell was probably too tough -caused by insufficient moisture. Too much and the eggs drown and mold over, too little and the eggs cave or nates can't pip.
I can assure 100% humidity in the incubator and still get an occasional clutch that begins to dessicate and requires furious misting.
On the other hand, single eggs that never pips will invariably have a deformed nate.
400 million years of evolution and this is the best they can do?
Dopey snakes.....
Jeff

>>hmmmm,...I thought the temps were mentioned, but I see they weren't (D'oh!).....so what were the temps anyway?
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>> ~Doug
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>>"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"
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I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way. - Robert Frost, 1935

Yes, that's true....but I have to wonder about how they are actually laid when snakes do it themselves,...More often than not, I'll bet they are more fully burried over with moist medium than we herper's do it. We usually just expose the top half of the eggs, and since the neonate's pip the top, this would actually be the toughest part to slice(pip)for the little tikes.

After all, I don't think the mother needs half the egg exposed to keep checking up on things like we do..hahaha!

Sometimes I think it could be a good idea to drape a loose fluffy slightly moist wad of Spaghnum moss over the top of the clutch just prior to it being time for them to hatch, just to help out if this is indeed the case.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

with the sphagnum moss.... I've been thinking the same thing. When I was younger I ALWAYS just used the old soak and wring method of sphagnum. Come to think of it... it always worked rather fine. Though I did wrench out every drop of water and did mist on the occassion. A draping on top could very well be an aid witht the more contemporary incubating media.

Matter of fact I am really thinking I want to try some clutches in just sphagnum again. The tropicals especially.... it occurs to me the sphagnum may even begin to breakdown and compost a bit helping to regulate the temps inside the moss. Just a thought, but I just sliced a hondo egg on it's three month anniversary only to find a beautiful tricolor that could've spent another few days (at least) in the egg.

Just my thoughts anyhow...

Chris

that's what I use...and it's always done well for me...I cover the entire clutch with the Spag. moss and I do my best to prevent the eggs from getting to moist.

-Rusty

Yeah,..with all this spaghnum talk, I just went in there and draped some over a few clutches that are due to hatch anytime now. I figured,...what the hey!, it certainly can't hurt!..

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

good idea Doug...I'll try and take some pics of what I do...the Spag. does two things...one it protects the eggs from getting condensation drops on them...and it also creates a "blanket" of stagnant/humid air around them.

I air them out once a week...but I'm not sure if that's good or not?

Considering I found a clutch of wild corns...which were about 12_inches under the ground, maybe airing them out isn't necessary?! The neonates didn't even emerge until their first shed...it was a once in a lifetime experience!

-Rusty

Yeah,..I agree Rusty, I otherwise keep careful tabs on condensation droplets falling directly on them by wiping the lids every other day, the blanket of sphagnum would work as a great "buffer", as well as the other things you mentioned.

That wild corn nest you found is really interesting too!,...no pics I don't suppose?...that would be awesome..LOL!

later!, Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I did take pics...but not with my camera...I'll see if I can obtain them...maybe difficult at this point...due to my recent "change of status" if you know what I mean.

-Rusty

Chris,...yes, it does make you wonder sometimes if just that little extra bit could make all the difference or not to a pipping neonate. As a matter of fact, I will probably do the "drape" thing with some sphagnum on a couple more clutches I'm expecting anytime now, just for the heck of it...

ps,....I hope your little unhatched tricolor does okay!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I actually drape a paper towel over top of the eggs from day one and mist the towel every other day. If things look too moist, I back off for a couple days. I haven't ever had one not be able to slit the egg doing this.

Dave
DNS Reptiles - Updated

Yes,....that sounds like it would work just fine too Dave,....I've never had a problem with this either, but I've seen more and more people that have had similar things happen to them regarding this, so I figured I would drape some sphagnum on them just for a little extra assurance.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hi Michael,
I'm having the same problems here in central NC. I've had a lot of clutches molding over this year even though I haven't done anything different than last year. My incubation temp is 82. I've had a couple clutches hatch out ok, but the majority are molding over. This morning I cut open a clutch that was laid on 6/14 (9 weeks old) that started to mold suddenly even though they looked great all along. They were obviously fertile because there were neonates in the shell but not quite fully formed.
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Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

my first thought was too wet......I think alot of my full formed dead in eggs are caused by being too wet......my thought........I get deads enough to see them every year....I get the one egg with deformed baby too every year...not always same girls or same morph or even species /genus....they just happen......

.......with my ball eggs the incubator will dry them out..I actually use wrung out cotten cloth over them ...not fully covered ,just over the top eggs and all........it doesn't mold up for me like moss does........

.......African house snakes......I got a 4th clutch setting now......I am keeping it dry.......the first 3 clutches I got 1 baby so far and half died fast and the other half were full deads......I think too wet......

.........balls' eggs that are really full and fat have troubles.......they should not stay fully inflated for the full time...........they should sink in a little........babies can be dead or bloated and dead......wierd I know....

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