Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well I took my beardie to the vet this morning and was excited that he really seemed to know what he was talking about.
He did a sonogram on her heart to listen to it...it was so cute to hear her little heart beating.
He weighed her...still a whopping 486 grams yeah.
He did a fecal test...all clear no internal parasites found.
He did a few skin graffs and looked under the microscope...and this is where I became VERY confused!!!
She does not have YFD. He said she has mite eggs??? He said there are little oval eggs on her skin...which I just thought was sand because there wasn't that many to the naked eye. He said that it is probably from a feeder insect that we got and the mites ended up in her cage. He said the mites were pretty much eating her scales and laying eggs under the scales that were there. I asked what all the yellow stuff was that looked almost like gross ear wax. He said it was the damaged skin from the mites eating? I felt relieved that he knew what it was and said that it should be simple to fix...asl ong as it is not a genetic problem with bacteria imbalance or something???
That is when I got really confused.
He told me to give her a 5 minute bath in cat/kitten flea and tick shampoo every day and then follow with a 10-15 minute rinse.
He prescribed her:
silver-sulfadiazine; ointment to apply to sores lightly every day
clavamox drops; .1 ml twice a day (the bottle says something about amoxycilin...antibiotic)
ivermectin; exact instructions
give 1st dose of 1 drop. wait 3 days and if acting normal give 2nd dose of 2 drops. wait 3 more days. if still acting normal give 3 drops. If this goes well, repeat the dose of 3 drops every 2 weeks???
what the heck is that supposed to mean...if acting normal???
I came home and have been researching all night on this drug and now am terrified that I gave her the first dose.
Does anyone know anything about this drug being used for mites or have any advice???

I have never heard of mites who just fed on skin and scales on bearded dragons. There are similar types for birds and rats.

When the doctor said adding drops, is that to the bath water? or directly onto your dragon?
-----
PHLdyPayne

(IVOMEC) Is a common medication used for mites and mite eggs, especially in shelters and for cattle and horses. I've used Ivomec topically to 2 week old kittens and nursing mothers. This is most likely what your vet was talking about.

As far as what he said about acting normally, I'll assume if your dragon has no new symptoms, or no progress has been made.

Just my idea/opinion.
Good luck!

Oh most likely in that aspect 'acting normal' he means the dragon doesn't show and negative reaction to the treatment...such as a toxic reaction.

I am tempted to just advise getting a can of Provent a Mite or Black Knight II (MKII) which is used to treat various snake mites in a safe manner.

Just remove old substrate from cage, put in play paper towel, and anything made out of wood where mites could lay eggs and hide. (remove dragon and water as well) spray cage thoroughly then let dry for about 20-30 minutes till its no longer damp anywhere. Put paper towel in and dragon and basic furnitures. No water dish.

Repeat in a month... I wouldn't use any other mite treatments while using the spray, however.

This mite treatment is safe for snakes and most lizards. Not for amphibians or geckos though.
-----
PHLdyPayne

He gave her the ivermectin drops and said to give it to her orally. One drop at first and then wait 3 days to see if she had a neurological reaction and if not...give 2 drops 3 days later. If no reaction then 3 more days later give her 3 drops. See if she has a reaction to it and if not...every 2 weeks give her 2 drops. I called his emergency line this morning because of all the stuff I read online about seizures caused by this med in lizards and told him how concerned I was. He told me that horses normally get like 10 cc's and he is only giving her a drop to 3 drops every few days...much less and he has done it all the time for reptiles. But that this is the only thing that will kill mites if she has ingested any or any of the eggs? It sounds so scary! I had thought it was yellow fungus because of the skin color etc. But he said that when he did the skin cultures under the microscope...he saw oval eggs which were mite eggs. Weird thing is...I am in and out of there cage a dozen times a day and have never seen a mite nor do I even really know what to look for. Her fecal smear was clear...no parasites and she has lost no weight or her appetite.
I almost started crying...I am soooo careful with them to make sure everything is perfect. They have never even had parasites of any kind...I was devastated. He told me it was probably from a bad batch of insects that I got and they transfered to her cage. He said the yellow stuff was all the damaged skin and her cage mate that I removed and also isolated...now has a sore under her eye grrrrr...small but I can see it! He did say that I brought Rose in early so she should be alright. But the medicine has me a bit frightened. Everything I have read says no and even on their website I heard it sayd not for reptiles. He said that is for smaller lizards and because she is 17 1/2 oz...almost 500 grams and holding her weight she will be fine with it.
Someone else suggested that I clean the cage out with the same cat/kitten flea and tick shampoo that he has me using on them and then diluted clorox water as well. Luckily my husband builds cages for me because he is a carpenter...so I have him out there right now building poor Rose a new cage and will not use this one for at least a month after it has been cleaned.
Any other suggestions. It is heart breaking to know she may be in pain and I can't help her

Personally, I will see another vet..

Ivermectin isn't all that safe for reptiles taken internally. I also never heard of mites attacking dead skin on dragons ever...and eating mite eggs wont' cause them to spontaneous appear out the outside... either the eggs will be digested or be pooped out..and visible in a fecal.

There was a post a month or two ago about the wisdom of using ivermectin internally as a preventative... mixed feelings on that wisdom but this was for Internal parasites, not external.

I suggest buying some Provent a Mite.. use that...or Reptile Relief on the effective area..these items are designed to be effective against external parasites.

Just the fact your vet says keep increasing the dosage..if he has a neurological reaction stop...kind of makes me think 'if it doesn't kill the pet, then it should work'

Also, if the dosage is too low, its not going to be effective either..and 'drops' are so inaccurate...and easy to accidentally squeeze out too many drops or a big one...or maybe the dispenser tip is bigger than it should be etc....

I think the safest thing is to use an external treatment, not an internal one...for external mites. Provent a mite is very effective from all external parasites commonly found on reptiles. Reptile Relief is not as effective..but can be applied directly on the reptile safely.

Or, since you already have the Ivermectin, mix 5-10 milligrams to one quart of water and spray the cage completely (much like I suggested for Provent a Mite in my other response. Before using the spray, clean the cage completely, then spray. (with lizard and water out). Let cage dry completely. Spray your dragon in the effected area and other parts of the body then let him dry. Put him back into his cage..repeat every 5 days or so. (Note: this suggestion I found in the Bearded Dragon Manual, page 127. I still think Provent a Mite would be best...just follow the directions on the can).
-----
PHLdyPayne

I can not thank you enough for answering my post. I have been going crazy the last 2 days since I gave her the ivermectin Friday night. Exactly what you said happened with the syringe they gave it to me in. It was given in a syringe instead of a bottle with a dropper etc. There was an air pocket in the top of the syringe and it made it so hard to try to dispense "1 drop" and it ended up squirting all over her face. Luckily I was able to wipe it all up before she started licking her face but I feared she may have gotten a bit more than one drop...which has had me panicking. When I called the vet yesterday, he told me that if she was going to have a reaction she would have had it by yesterday morning and that she would be fine because it was such a small dose. She was eating fine until yesterday afternoon and then she became so very lethargic. By the time it was time for her to go to bed she could barely lift her head up and just won't open her eyes. I don't know if she is not opening them because of them mites or if it is something else. I didn't go to sleep last night...instead I stayed up with her ALL night like I used to with my kids. She laid on my chest while I watched tv and I just kept checking her to make sure she was breathing...it was so scary. I laid her new clean cage this morning on paper towels and she didn't even open her eyes or lift head and it is 9 AM.
Could this be from the ivermectin? I was able to get her to lick baby food off my finger last night a little bit...which I disguised 1/4 inch crickets that I killed and put in the squash. I am going to try some pedialyte this morning and give her another luke warm bath without the shampoo (that will be later this afternoon) in hopes that it will help get rid of any mites she has under her scales that I cannot see and also to help flush any of that medicine out of her system. It has been very warm here in NY...so for the past few days I have brought her outside to get natural sunlight for a few hours each day after the sun was not too hot.
I will try the spray today. What do you think would work better the provent a mite or using the ivermectin as a spray mixture?
Any ideas on why she is so lethargic and not eating?
This is just killing me to see her like this. They are just breeders or pets to me...sounds corny I know but they are like little family members and it is ripping my heart out seeing how much pain she is in and not knowing what else to do.
There is no other vet in my area that will take her being such a sick reptile. I found one in Albany I am calling Monday morning...and beg him to see her and get a second opinion. The problem is...they have all told me either they have no experience with reptiles or have no idea what to do about the skin damage and how sick she has now become???

If she started getting more lethargic and stopped eating completely after you gave her the ivermectin then I would definitely say she is having a negative reaction to it. I would stop giving her any oral ivermectin and stop the flea shampoo soaks.

Pumping her full of chemicals that are by nature toxic is likely to just poison her. I would use the spray to treat her cage but don't treat her for a few days. If her neck looks dry and cracked, put some antibotic cream (polysporin or similar, just as long as it has no pain killer in it). Simple paper towel substrate. After a week if she seems more active and eating (the probiotic is a good idea too), then treat her cage with the spray again and carefully add some on her.
-----
PHLdyPayne