Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is my 16 month old baby girl holding my other babes. The larger one is Bob, which we are almost positive is a female and going in about a week to find out. The smaller one is Hydra, a 3 yr old male at about 3 1/2 ft. She loves snakes, she calls them "Snays" and "petty bebes"

not to stir up any thing ...... but why would you let a baby hold a snake ? I think it is great when kids get in to reptiles..... but they do strike at any time. and plus they crawl around there cage where they poop and pee. Call me crazy but I sure will not let my 18 month old hold any snake any time soon.

i was right there by her, cropped myself out, and i made sure to clean both of them before i did, she had both of them for under a minute.

and a ball python's strike time is 0.3 second....
cobra's is 0.9 to 1.1 second.......

......hmmmm..........

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.(I am just guessing at strike times..but balls are fast....really really fast...people scream and yell and holy crap all the time when they finally see a big ball actually slam something........I ask....do you still want them big?...do you still want balls?......)

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She is just showing a picture of her love ones. Its her child and its her choice. She trusts her snakes not to strike. Maybe because she handles them more than you do. If the snake strikes then that would be her fault not yours. Learn to appreciate pictures that people post. If you want to criticize someone why dont you go do that to someone whos threatening the lifes of others or their pets. I don't care how fast they strike or not. I have not been bitten by one snake in the past 10 years of handling my bloods which is much nastier than balls as hatchlings and become very docile. I would rather have a baby near a ball over a blood or such larger snakes Boas? Its her choice and her kid. Did you give birth to this child? No, so take a chill pill and move on along the forum. Life is too short to be crabby.

Cute baby and nice snakes you got there.

THANK YOU!! i have had hydra, the smaller one, since he was just 4 weeks old. and i have had bob for over a year. they have never struck, or even hissed at us. i trust my pythons 100%. they are held every day possible, the only time i do not handle them is when they are in shed or 24 hours after eating. and my daughter already knows how to gently pet them. again, thank you for being more supportive. people are really big to pass judgement when they have shared pictures of their kids handling snakes, yet i do the same and i get jumped.

although your snakes have never struck or hissed at you, I do not feel that snakes can ever truly be tamed. What you do with your kids and your snakes is your choice, however, I don't think I'd ever do that with my kids.
Just because they have never bitten does not mean that they never will. They are still wild animals and have a mind of their own. You can never trust your snakes 100% because you cannot actually know what they will do. However, I do agree that I trust some more than others, but they are still animals and the ones I trust more, I can never completely trust. One of my pastel males that almost never bites has bitten me at least two times. I trust him more than my het albino female who is an absolute you know what, but my pastel has still bitten me. Basically, I feel you can never completely trust a snake and I never would trust a snake enough to have it slither around my kid.

Does your theory also apply to dogs and cats and all pets in general? I mean really how big of a deal would it really be in the snake bit the child?
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Tosha
JET Pythons

I guess they really would die if I posted pictures of her sitting on my Rottweiler mix.. Maybe some of you can't fully trust your snakes, but I do mine.

on a dog either, let alone a Rott mix. Unless it talks, don't trust it,meaning humans are capable of making a decision and knowing and understanding the consequence, and we have an advanced thought process, and we also know right from wrong, but we are far from our potential, and there are plenty of humans out there not to trust too of course. You have no way to know what may set the snake or even the dog off, and I honestly don't care about how long someone has had an animal. They are UNPREDICTABLE, no matter if you raised them from birth or not.
I have a picture of myself at 9 months old taken while I was on the belly of a wolf hybrid, and I hate it. My parents were extremely irresposible to put me on a dog of that size. Of course nothing happened but I would never subject my child to a possibly dangerous situation. As far as the argument with other people posting their snake with their kids, those children were atleast 6 and over and handling SMALLER snakes.
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In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

you can protect your kids by putting them in a bubble. that way even germs cant get them because being young means they have no munnities!

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First off I don't have kids so please don't tell me how to raise them when I do. You know nothing about me and im not even gonna go there in regards to the Bubble boy pic. When the time comes I know I will be educating my child the best ways possible, yes animals included, but I don't think I will be throwing my newborn on my Arabian just yet, though it is good to learn animals early! So maybe I will get a baby saddle and go from there. I mean I know my horse since he was a newborn foal. (UGGH) I wasn't sheltered and that was a asanine statement. The hydra girl is being smug about the whole thing. She feels she could handle the situation no matter how bad it could have become. If you don't want to hear the negative OPINIONS to how people on this forum feel in regards to the situation then don't read the damn thing. I honestly don't know how you thought this would be a happy post.
What is the word for when people start thinking that their animals love them and have feelings for them? That thinking is HILARIOUS!!! If you can't respect people commenting on what they see as a possibly dangerous situation then you have no place to spout off too others.
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In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

well when people in this hobby are so concerned about the hobby in general why even state negative comments about the hobby period? comments like they can attack at any minute! I wouldnt put my children near them and so on. Which is worse in the publics point of view?

Random person "That darn thing in the everglades ate my dog."

or

Reptile hobbiest "They can strike at any minute, totally unpredictable! Kids shouldnt be allowed!"

The more bashing on her the more fodder for the papers. You think they arent reading all of this just the same as us? Its dirt to get the bills passed. Thats my point. If you dont like it sometimes its better to be quiet.
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anthropomorphism I can't spell but it's when we assign human qualities to non-human things. animals or other things......

wow I don't think I've posted here in 3 years........
looks like nothing has changed...

TomChambers

...the snake has more to fear than the kid. in the second pic it looks like the kid is squeezing the snakes neck. so the snake doesnt bite the child, i still say "poor snake".

I agree with you - It's the snakes you need to protect from the kids. My 6 year old still does not have freedom to get a snake out. Me or my other son who is 12 will get one for him to gently hold in our presence. He is very gentle, but I do have to remind him to be careful.

Almost everytime my 12 year old decides to go play with the hatchlings he gets bit. I yell at him for scaring the babies.. LOL..

Cute pics!!

personally.......

I don't care either way

and I fear kids hurting snakes more than snakes hurting kids.

have fun.....do whatever.......
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While I do not think it is a BIG deal, I can see the negative news headlines now, "Burmese Boa Attacks Baby." The media never gets the snake species right, and blows everything out of perportion. Why take the chance?

yes the news can get it all wrong but what i cant get everyone to understand is we had the snakes photographed and put back up in about a minutes time.. my hand all the time was just 4-5 inches from my child, i didnt even move my hand until time for the flash. but i guess it just makes me an awful parent in most peoples eyes *rolls eyes*

I for one cannot believe that you got so many ignorant responses from herpers on a ball python forum - oh well - you know what they say about opinions - I thought they were cute pictures.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

thanks. i guess some people do not trust their BP's as much as i do. but i spend time with mine and consider them my pets as much as i do my dog, so i know what they do and do not like. that's why i laid them in front of her certain ways. bob, my larger one, isn't big on her head being touched, so her head is away from my child. my smaller one, hydra , he could careless where you touch him so i laid him across her. he's always been the most gentle snake i've ever met. he always without fail falls asleep on you when you hold him.

if i had ANY doubt, even the slightest, that they might bite her i would never put them around her. but i knew they wouldn't. not sure who it was that this but , "i guess some of us are better parents than others" , excuse me, but who are you to judge me and my parenting skills? the father of my child left when i was 5 months pregnant. i have raised my daughter on my own , i had to continue living with my mother because he ran out on me. she is now 16 months old and very advanced for her age, i even took her to the childrens vanderbilt hospital to be seen by the head of the pediatric center. he heard her talking very clearly at 12 months , she is now putting 2-3 words together and half through her potty training. she already says thank you, so i have taught her how to talk in sentences, nearly potty trained , respect for animals , and manners, but i am not a good parent. yeah that makes sense.

if anyone doesn't like the pictures, then they just don't have to look at this thread now do they?

i thought the pictures and the kid was cute. i see more threatend babbies riding in cars with crap ass parents driving. dont dabble on the small stuff lady and i dont see anything wrong.

thank you, nice to see there's a few people here who aren't calling me a horrible irresponsible parent just for 2 pictures! i am SO picky with my child, i paid out the @$$ for her car seat so i knew it would be a super nice one, she never had baby food bought from a store. i bought a blender so i could make my own for her. i have done all i can do be the best parent i can, yet i get the "bad parent" label for introducing her early to my snakes. go figure.

This post reminded me of "way back" when I was in high school,(20 some years ago), myself and a couple friends were cruising the "Avenue" on a friday night in one of my friends hot rods,(thats what we did back in the 80s, probably illegal consumption involved as well, not proud, just saying it was the norm). So anyway, my friend was driving behind this brand new Camaro and he one foot on the gas and one on the brake and was way to close, and one of us said to him, "don't you think you are getting a little to close to that car in front of you", and the rest of us agreed. The driver replied, "I know this car like the back of my hand". It wasn't two seconds later we smashed into the back of the brand new Camero, luckily no one was hurt. We told that story and laughed our asses off about that for years!!!
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Salmonella doesn't care how close you were to the baby. The fact of the matter is, you show that pciture to your pediatrician and he is obliged by law to report you to social service. Take it as you will....

My 3 year old boy has stroked the backs of snakes then sent immediately to the bathroom to wash and disinfect his hands. There is one reported case where a baby died because dad had snakes in his lab. Dad comes home from work, after having carefully washed. Picks up baby. Baby dies fgrom bloody diahreah and kidney failure several days later. Turns out Dad draped the snake over his shoulders while cleaning the cage. When he picked up the baby 6 hours later, the baby picked up the nasties from the colar of his shirt.

I would never have come on here to dog you, but I guess I am here to support those that questioned your choice. To me, the "strike" factor is no big deal. Worst case scenario is a few little cuts....

As a rule, when my child was an infant. I cleaned snakes last thing at night and not only did I wash hands and sanitize, I also bathed as soon as I was done...

But I studied microbiology in college, so I may be a wee bit more sensitive to the dangers here. While small, they are real...

The fact is yes 90% of reptiles carry salmonella in their digestive tract. Yes they pass it from their bodies in their fecal matter. As do cats, dogs, hamsters, parakeets, etc. Next time you see your cute fluffy puppy romping around in the yard (where it poops) and then comes in and curls up next to your child you are exposing your child to the possibility of salmonella poisoning - does that make you a bad parent as well?

Salmonella needs to be passed from the fecal matter into the mouth and ingested for it to be harmful -- by washing off the snake, by not allowing the child to put her hands or the snake in her mouth and by cleaning off the the child after the handling session - you virtually eliminate the risks.

I was under the impression one of the purposes of these forums was to help educate others to be responsible herpers. So instead of perpetrating the fear and ignorance you should be praising the poster for doing EVERYTHING right.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

first, the strain of salmonella associated with reptiles is particularly virulent in humans. You do not need to have direct contact with the feces, as was the case in the case I mentioned. The simple and scarey fact is that children of that age are naturally immune compromised...even very small numbers of bacteria could cause serious/fatal illness. Simply washing the snake certainly did not remove bateria from the animal to any great degree. Did mom quickly change the childs clothes? If not, another opportunity for later exposure. Also, I'm not sure which if any strains of salmonella make up a natural part of the canine gut flora. With dogs, I'd me much more concerned with worms...hooks, pins, etc., etc...

Read the tenor of my posts. I never came to slam anyone and never did. I did try and offer another reason why the OPs practice may not be adviseable. Forget how bad it ooks for the hobby...I was just hoping to educate and prevent reading another horrible story in the newspaper....

if you look back she didn't have anything but a diaper on, and i stated later she bathed immediately

I guess my point is (and without beating the horse nearly to death - this will be my last post) that EVERYTHING in life is a risk. As responsible pet owners, as parents we try our best to do what is right for our children - but placing them in a sano protected bubble in hopes that nothing will ever touch them isn't the answer.

The reptile industry as a whole has a huge stigmata against it - reptiles in case you haven't heard are icky creatures and no one should be allowed to own them and they most certainly will kill any small child or pet withing 1000 feet of it.

The chances of a child contracting salmonella from a snake are slim - especially under responsible monitoring. Lets stop using the occasional freak accident to scare people into what you think is right for their child - we can use it to educate -- but it was clear that this poster was educated on the risks and took care to make sure that the handling experience was done right. Seriously far more children drown every year than get sick from their snakes - my guess is you'll still take your children to the beach or pool because you feel that that is an acceptable risk that you are willing to take.

The reptile industry needs to be able to show the world that hey my snake is not icky - it is cool - it will not eat your chihuahua - it's not going to kill your children and it's not going to migrate into all 50 states and wipe out your natural ecosystem. And we need to start by not attacking responsible herpers within our own community.

Stepping off the soap box now.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Kind of crazy that people are bashing on you. In my opinion it shows two things people are ignorant, and you love your snakes and child.

I want to see these people post on a forum when people take pics of thier new born next to the family dog or cat and say "awwww how cute". I bet a good amount of people per year get bit/killed from dogs. I also know cats will attack at any minute!

While we are bashing parents lets bring up the famous late steve irwin and him feeding a croc with his son in his arms. Who cares what he did for our trade and for animal conservation.

lol

Anyways, again nice pics I guess some folks think thiers an age limit to getting into the hobby.
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Just an FYI on your "age limit" idea. The American Academy of Pediatrics says no snakes at all in the house if there is an infant less than 1 year old. So, yeah...I guess there's your limit...

because she clearly stated that the baby is 16 months old and she also stated that she washed the snakes before the pics, and I would assume that she washed the baby after the pics as well. Even if the snake bit her whats really the worst that could happen a pinch and a little blood its not the end of the world.

agreed....the snake biting her is not a concern....I worry about salmonella on a developing immune system....she may have "washed" the snake, but she couldn't possibly have sanitized it. Just pointing out that all the outrage over the bite possibility was missing an even more serious possibile problem..

exactly. and when she was under a year the snakes were on the other side of the house, not in our room. i made sure they were out of the room before i had her and the area they were in disinfected. anytime i handled them i would change my clothes afterwards and wash up to my shoulders in antibacterial soap, and i still do. and i gave my daughter a bath after the pictures.

in fact they still are in a different room. bob stays in my parents room, hydra is in my moms sewing room. when i get eve, my female, in a week shewill be in the sewing room as well. i never allow animals in my daughters room.

In response to some of the unsupportive comments in this thread:

I don't have children, but if I did, I would be more worried about putting my child in day care or school than I would about him/her holding one of my snakes that doesn't have a habit of biting. I'm sure there's a higher percentage of kids being hurt by other kids when interacting with each other than kids being hurt by snakes when interacting with each other. I guess the bottom line is kids are going to fall and scrape their knees, get pushed by their peers or even hit in the face, etc etc... snake or no snake things will happen and a snake bite isn't the worst thing in the world if it does happen.
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-Diana
www.LunarBoids.com

thank you, one of the few supportive people! i agree 100% , daycare is nothing i would ever consider. that's also how a lot of SBS cases have happened. salmonella is a risk , yes , but it's 99.9% of the time passed through fecal matter. my child isn't playing with my snakes **** so that cuts it to a .1 %. you are more likely to get it from raw poultry than you are from a snake. so am i supposed to not have chicken or turkey now?

np

How many documented cases of salmonella sp?? are reported a year from someone with a snake. I've never heard of someone contracting salmonella from a snake... I have a 2yr old and I sometimes let her touch my snakes. But she gets rub rub (what she call hand sanitizer). Is she in anymore danger of contracting salmonella than some kid that goes and plays in a creek???

i agree 100% i'd rather her pet my snakes than play in some nasty creek where godknows what is in the water along with people tossing animals bodies in there. for those of you who have defended me, thank you. to those who think it's horrible and that i am a bad irresponsible parent - you can take your opinions on me and shove them this is my child, and my snakes. if i want to let her pet my snakes i am going to. i trust them, and i will continue to let her see them. just as i will continue to let her pet my "evil killer" rottweiler mix that rolls over and shows her belly to my daughter every day.

Wow....wow.....wow......wow. If you want to throw your child into the deep of the ocean that's up to you and you alone and anyone who doesn't like the idea can pound sand. Personally I think the pictures are great and love to see more, lots more with even bigger snakes. I myself think it wouldn't be a big deal at all if the snake bit the child and might actually be humorous. As far as Salmonella is concerned, the child has a better chance of being struck by lightning twice at the same spot one year apart. So don't let the haters get you down sister, it's quite evident your 're passionate about your bambino and that's all that matters. Peace, love and never ever be content with the "STATUS QUO" or "TOW THE PARTY LINE". Andrew the slightly hindered.

I think that people are blowing this way out of proportion. If anybody leaves any negative responses to me personally, I will disregard them. I do though, agree 100% with some people that are saying a young kid is more of a threat to the ball than the ball is to the young kid. someone I know with various herps, including balls let their 4-year-old handle one un-supervised... well... it ended as bad as it possibly could have. BUT I did read the whole thread, and I really don't think that the snake was in much danger if you were that close by the WHOLE time... just MY opinion...and also in MY opinion it's good to learn and start young...

Nice pic and good luck,

Rachel