Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A follow up from the bad eggs post below...I've been in management meetings in Asheville all week...

First of all, I appreciate you guys for following up below and sharing your experience and advice.

I cut two of them open yesterday. Both felt very firm to the touch, so I was pretty sure they were bad. Both had partiallly developed snakes in them that must have died at around 6 weeks or so. They were incased in a hard, pink cover. Several of the other eggs are like this, but two of them feel softer and more fluid to the touch, like good eggs typically do, so I'm giving them a little more time.

My substrate was sphagnum moss, long fibers, wetted and wrung out until no more water would drip out. Enclosure was sealed and only opened 1x per week for oxygen exchange. Eggs were covered with a layer of sphagnum from day one.

I don't use an incubator, but use the old shelf/room temp method. I track temps every other day and record them weekly. Here's what they looked like:

week 1 76*
week 2 74*
week 3 76*
week 4 76*
week 5 74*
week 6 76*
week 7 77*
week 8 75*
week 9 75*
week 10 75*
week 11 74*
week 12 79*

I know that these temps are lower than most use, but I've never had problems with these temps before, only with higher temps (lost 35 of 40 mole king eggs in 2006 due to temps that spiked around 90 over a period of a couple days).

My only thought is that my lower than normal temps cause a longer incubation period, which sets me up for more issues with mold, thickening of the shell, and other potential problems that you guys mentioned.

Any other thoughts based on this? Next year, I plan to breed andesiana and gaigae...do you all take into account the lower temps in their habitat when you incubate their eggs?

Thanks,
Michael

Personally I incubate at similar temps. I started incubating at cooler temps in hopes that my clutches would be female heavy. I can't say for sure if it works but since I started I haven't had a clutch be male heavy.

It does take longer for the eggs to hatch, but I find that if I develop fungus or mold it happens pretty early and destroys the eggs long before they are due to hatch so I don't think it would make a difference.

Also I figure that the fungus or mold would spread faster at a higher temp?
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Hey Michael,

Aside from the hatching medium being 'hatchrite' for me this year my incubation system was akin to yours... though to reference your larger milks question. My hondos hatched out @ 3 months and 3 days at the slightly lower temps. As my room heats up to near 82 I kept them near the floor and with temp testing found my range between 75 and 78 consistently even well into the late hours of the night.

I did slice an egg and the rest I left alone. Save gently rocking a razor blade back and forth on 3 of the remaining 4 to create a weakening as I was certain they'd all be close to hatching. The three I scored hatched out almost in unison overnight and the final was pipped the next evening. Not sure if that is truly relevant but just passing it along. Anyhow I, too, was worried the prolonged length could have toughened the shells and so was merely trying to lend a helping hand. Mind you I had a reference from just having sliced into an egg...

I figured I'd stick it out from the start with these at room temp as I was wondering the same thing in terms of milks from mountainous terrain in relation to cooler temps. Also figured giving them as much time in the egg as possible as well would only serve to be beneficial... though I admittedly got really anxious at the three month point!

By the way I'm on a back log for pics but I'll snag some of the Catawba's and shoot them up to you...

Chris

Welcome back and hope Ashville was friendly amd accomodating!
Your temps are the culprit here and the cause of the longer incubation time (maybe, but I don't know the ssp) - not sure why some eggs croaked along the way though.
Your gaigae and andesiana eggs will require 11 weeks or more at the same temp range you have now and a fertile egg should not mold over unless the moss is sprouting mold. Even then, I'm not sure the mold would affect healthy eggs.
Your incubation methods sound perfectly fine now that you're avoiding 90 degrees. I'm sticking with 78-80 but went down that 90 road a couple times. Dell tried 120 if that's any consolation.....
Post pics of the kids when they appear!
Jeff
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I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way. - Robert Frost, 1935

Hi Michael,
Jeff is right about the 120 temps I got this year. I was out of town for 5 days and my incubator spiked and held 120 degrees for I don't how long. Long enough to cook everything in the incubator. I do not recommend 120 degrees.
Befor that I had the incubator holding 78, 79 degrees.
I had some of those eggs close to being done too. I lost two clutches of multistrata, my first ever clutch of alterna, some sweet looking locality syspila, and a clutch of hondurans.

The year is not a total loss, thank God, I had a w/c multistrata drop 5 eggs after the incubator blow up. These eggs are sitting on heat tape and holding temps at 77, 78.

Good luck w/ your eggs,

-Dell

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Looks like we all win some and lose some...

I sliced a clutch of E. obsoleta eggs last year, only to have the babies from the slit eggs crawl out of the eggs and die. I am guessing that their lungs weren't quite there yet.

I wonder what the ratio of bad eggs and egg bound females is in the wild compared to captivity? No way to know, but really makes us question our husbandry.

Thanks again to everyone.

Michael