Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that the coral in the Kahl albinos is a trait that has been essentially line bred into the albinos from selectively breeding albinos that have a coral appearance. I see animals named as coral Sharps and I wonder what the origin of the coral is in the Sharps and to what extent it is reliably passed on in each generation.
Did it emerge in a similar way where a small number of animals showed the coral appearance and were then selectively bred or is it just part of the range of normal for Sharp albinos. Are there known coral lines or certain breeders whose animals tend to be more coral than others? Does the hypo gene have any effect on the coral appearance of the animals?

I would appreciate any information that people can provide.

Bill Kirby

I only know of Pastel Dream Sharp Albino Boas. Did not realize people were marketing any Sharp Albino Boas as Coral.
So I'm no help to you Bill.
. . . . . .Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

trait passed on?

I thought it was kind of random. Do all babies from a coral
albino inherit it?

I didn't think it worked that way. I thought only some would
get it...

In the long run aren't corals more or less Pastel albino's that aren't from "known"/"named" Pastel lines? I mean,when you see a nice het Coral albino,isn't it a Pastel looking boa het albino? I mean Look at Ronne's Pastel albino's and the Pastel Dream Sharps. Looks like Corals to me more or less. Thats just my opinion though.

I was thinking the same thing...
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uncommonboa.com

To answer both questions. From what I can find out about the Coral trait. First off it can only be called "Coral" if it is descended from the Peter Kahl original Coral Boa line. Its still isn't fully understood how the Coral trait is passed along. It does seem soemwhat random,plus some Boas Coral up extremely after many months.There is a lengthy write up at BoaMorph by Steve Reiners. He's done some work(alot) with this trait.Link below at BoaMorph Coral Page.
The Pastel Dream Albino Line Both the Kahl Line "Jeff Ronne" and the Sharp Line Doug Matuszak. Pastel Dream Boas from both of those lines originated with Jeff Ronne. Jeff explains that this is polygenic. Doug believes its Codom type result with his breedings. What is clear with Pastel Dream Albino Boas you will always produce very nice colorful Albino Boas and hets with a good Pastel Dream Albino or het Boa.I believe More numbers of colorful Boas and more predictable results.
So the two traits are similar but not the same.
. . . . . Lar M
BoaMorph Coral Page

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I am very aware of all that info but thanks for putting it up as i'm sure not everyone is. My Point is, Pete obviously did some selective breeding to bring out more color right? So, when one does that what do they look for? A normal or hypo showing more then normal to extreme color with the hopes of them passing that on to the offspring right? So,just because the animal/s Pete chose were'nt from known/named Pastel lines, doesn't mean they weren't from Pastel/high colered normals. I see the point your trying to make that the Pastel Dream Gene is a different line of pastel. All i'm saying from what I see,the corals came from selective breedings of high colored no name "pastels" and look very simalar to the Pastel Dream albinos from both strains with the exception of higher reds opposed to purples. Not trying to discredit or prove anyone wrong, thats just been my opinion from day one. Like I said in my other post,if I were looking to get a nice het Coral i'd pick the one with the most Pastel look to it. I know a lot of the Corals color up after several months but so do Pastels.

I had very different post at first. Then I reread your latest question/post .I'm obviously biased about Pastel dreams because they are clearly superior to most Pastel lines.
Your asking the question of which Boa type to pick for color. A colorful Hypo or a colorful normal. Either one or both can be used to selectively breed superior colored or quality Boas.
Petes original purple colored hets that began the Coral trait were what many people would call pastel. Although,I believe they were not pastel Boas to begin with,just high colored Boas(purple colored ) They became very black colored as they matured. This is what threw alot of people off track. Many people started to think the black is what made a colorful albino. It wasn't the black but original color underneath. You know that as well I'm sure I just wanted to reiderate.Point being you want to bring the color out anyway you can bottom line.Make sense ?
Figures a conversation I'm enjoying and I gotta go to the Dr. office . Maybe we can pick up our conversation later ?

. . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Oh,
I wasn't asking it as a question. I meant for it to be a statement but it does look like that now that I reread it. I meant for it to say,people use high colored normals,hypos and pastels to refine there albino stock. The rest of your reply does make sense and that is probably what started the whole, darker hets make better colored albino's. I agree with you 100% about the true Pastel Dream line. Although there are others pretty close in there own ways, Pastel Dreams are my all time favorites as far as Pastel Sharps go atleast. I'm a little biased towards Sharps myself!

I don't think Pete did a lot of outcrossing to breed better color into the animals in the beggining. He was interested in production and had one het female that produced for him 7 years in a row along with other breeders. The corals were a few selected animals out of all of the litters that had that different look. I think Pete really started to outcross for appearance with the stripe line which was several years after the first corals.
Bill

Also good info to know. So,he took the best/different looking albinos and hets from the breedings and bred those back to eachother creating even better looking generations. Makes perfect sense. Like I said before I wasn't trying to discredit anything but to just make the point that the way you just described what Pete did to get the better color/corals is how most of the Pastel lines we have today were started. I can say one thing,i've become a much faster typer in the past couple days with all the posts and threads i've been involved in!

I missed seeing the Kirby family table in Daytona this year Bill. I decided to sit this year out. Hows that boy you got from me a while back doing? Did he get to meet any females this past year?

First, an element of this discussion that has been posted on and clarified MANY times is that the pastel trait as defined by Jeff Ronne does not have anything to do with color, only a reduction in the normal amount of black pigment. The following is an excerpt from one of my previous posts:

The Pastel trait was developed, named and defined by Jeff Ronne as, "A Boa that has an odd overall wash lacking the normal amount of black and a reduction in black pigmentation in particular throughout the pattern. This is particularly apparent in babies, which have the same kind of washed out pattern as Hypos. The saddles as well as the side blotches have less black than 'normal'. In fact, often the side blotches have no black whatsoever. That's it, nor more no less."

Also, "Color is something that is enhanced by the Pastel trait not something that defines it at all.....color is not a deciding factor as to whether or not a Boa is Pastel."

These excerpts are from Jeff's Pastel Boa History which can be found on his forum page at:
www.boaconstrictor.net/forums/showthread.php?t=386

Second, the coral trait has been around for as long as the Kahl albino has been. Coral albinos popped up early, in some of Pete Kahl's first litters and were distinct from the regular albinos right from the start. Coral albinos were not developed by selective/line breeding.

Finally, I have not seen any Sharp albinos advertised as corals, and in my opinion it would be improper to do so as this would imply that the Sharp albino in question carries the same coral trait associated with Kahl albinos, and there is absolutely no way that anyone has proven that to be true. If somebody develops a line of Sharp albinos that exhibits characteristics similar to the coral trait in Kahl albinos, they should choose a name other than coral to describe their line/trait.

Steve Reiners

www.BoaMorph.com