Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I am currently spending 10 months in China, and I think while I am here I would like to for some ratsnakes and hopefully bring them back to the US.

I have several questions you might help me with:

What would it be like to bring snakes back through customs?

There is a specific Asian snake, I believe it is a type of ratsnake, that I am interested in but cannot remember the name of. It is red and black, looks very dangerous, and a couple of years ago they were selling for about $500 in the US.

Do you have any suggestions for other ratsnakes I should look for?

I don't know what kind of petstores they have here, but I hope one of my students will be able to help me out, since I speak no Chinese at all.

Thanks for you help!

Nin Hao,
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When you say "China", I assume you mean the "People's Republic of China".
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IMHO....
If you want an animal, get it captive bred from a breeder here in US.
If you want a souvenir, buy a Jade ring, a toy Panda, and a good Gung Pao Ji Ding recipe.
With regards to live creatures, bring back only pictures and memories.
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This is especially true if you make statements like:
"There is a specific Asian snake, I believe it is a type of ratsnake, that I am interested in but cannot remember the name of. It is red and black, looks very dangerous, and a couple of years ago they were selling for about $500 in the US." (sha gua)

Zai Jian
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Yes,........I have to say, I agree with that 100 percent!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hmm. Perhaps I have misrepresented myself. I have been keeping snakes, primarily ratsnakes, for ten years. The particular snake I am interested in is the thai bamboo ratsnake, and I don't want it because it looks dangerous, I want it because it is very beautiful. It's just that brightly-colored snakes are typically dangerous, so I thought that would be a good way to describe it.

I must also clarify that I am not talking about catching snakes, and I have no idea what sort of petstores exist here, or what goes into getting a snake through customs. If it is dangerous or bad for the snake, I won't do it. That's why I came here to ask about it, but your responses don't tell me anything specific. By China I mean Nanjing, and I am teaching English to undergraduates here for a year. I don't think it would be "cool" to bring a snake home; this is a serious hobby for me and I care very much about the welfare of the animals involved.

Hello,...

Yes, I knew from your initial description of "red and black" ratsnake with a strange name you couldn't quite remember, that you were talking about the "porphyracea" complex of Bamboo Ratsnakes. We both made the "not such a good idea" comment only because there are many of them(captive bred) available here in the states, so there is no need to endorse any more wild collecting and importing. I know the idea would be extremely gratifying to bring your own over, but the truth is, those "Bamboo" Rats if taken from the wild, or even worse yet, from some street vendor that has kept one(or even many) in a stressful environment would probably not fair well at all from the major stress of prolonged confinement and possible parasite loads, not to mention they need a very moist/humid and much cooler temperature than most other snakes to thrive,..or even SURVIVE for that matter that would VERY likely not be able to be met. I've also heard of these dying in a heartbeat from their environment not being ideal for just a short period of time.

In any case, we were not trying to belittle you in any way, as you seem very intelligent and well educated. If you think you know enough to have all these key points I mentioned addressed, then it might not be so terrible, but otherwise, the animal's best interest would most likely be seriously compromised.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Okay, fair enough, restart......
Yes, you did come across a little,,,uh ,,,differently.

“The particular snake I am interested in is the thai bamboo ratsnake”
Thai Bamboo Ratsnake (Elaphe porphyracea coxi)
Great animals… from northern Thailand… http://www.ratsnakes.com/images/Epcoxi.jpg
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”I have no idea what sort of petstores exist here”
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This you have to root out with the locals, but buyer beware. You may have to search to find a shop that takes care of its animals. Even if you do, be advised, that these animals go through several “middle men”, distributors, who are not held even remotely to the husbandry standards you are familiar with here in the west. You don’t want wild caught, but most are.
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The conditions that the animals are often kept in are often a living petri dish for parasites and some really nasty pathogens that can wipe out entire collections and are a challenge to the best reptile veterinarian.
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I’ve visited some of these places in Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, DaNang, and Shanghai. It is not unusual to see piles of hundreds of animals with dead and dying ones at the bottom of the pile (not unlike some Miami distributors in the ‘60s.)
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Assuming you find a healthy looking animal (emphasis on looking, since you might be hard pressed to find a vet), then you have to find the right bureaucratic agency to get export documentation. This can involve several, self-important officials, and in some countries, dash, propina, grease, bribes.
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“what goes into getting a snake through customs”
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There are US Government Customs web sites to wade through for the information on import things like vet inspections, CITES restrictions, etc. With persistence you may get the proper documentation.
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http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/kbyg/prohibited_restricted.xml#FishandWildlife
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You still have to get the animal home…
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You can’t take it as carry-on or check it in your baggage. You have to arrange transportation with an import/export agency.
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IMHO, all said and done, although you may get an animal for the Yuan equivalent of $10, the added cost and hassle usually isn’t worth it, unless Import/Export is your business.
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My suggestion is “bite the bullet” and buy clean, captive bred animals from some of the good folks here. Do a KS search for “coxi” and you’ll find many folks discussing their animals.
There are reputable importers here on KS who offer the animals at less money, but the freeloading organisms that you don’t see are still an increased risk.
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“By China I mean Nanjing”
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Nanjing, or Nan King as the British called it was the old capitol of mainland China, now The Peoples Republicof China.

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Yes, when I posted my first message, I had been teaching for ten hours on my feet, so I didn't bother to explain myself very well.

Thank you both for the information. From what I have seen of China so far, it is an amazing country, but when I tell my students I keep pet snakes, their reactions tell me this is even less common here than in the states. From what both of you said, it sounds like it is simply too difficult both to find a healthy snake and to insure that it will be treated properly during transportation, so I will give up the idea.

Thanks again for your thoughtful responses.

When you get back from your trip, you can get a captive breed animal that is sure to be in good health and you won't have to get a bunch of permits. There are people breeding them here in the USA.

Enjoy your travels.