Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Today while at work, a customer that is a regular came in and got to talking with me about the B/T I'm taking home in two weeks.

He was telling me that a white throat and black throat are the same exact monitor and the max size is 4.5 feet. Now, from reading this forum and reading my numerous books and magazines, I know his size is wrong, but I haven't found any books that really discuss the differences between a W/T and B/T, besides that obvious name difference. One book I have says that B/T's are just W/T's in a B/T "phase." It also says the following "V. albigularis was quickly seperated into a number of questionable sub-species. Besides the nominate form, there are V. a. microstictus(questionably valid) and V. s. ionidesi{no longer valid, but still used by pet dealers.)"

So, my question is, how "genetically" similar are W/T's and B/T's? And are they one in the same?

If you see the 2 it would be easy to tell them apart. The BT is known to reach 5-7ft. The WT is known to reach 4-6 ft with some local specimens ranging from 4-4.5 ft. The albig is a large species that is very strong! I have 2 BT/WT crosses (Rob Faust crosses). According to the experts they are the same species V.Albigularis. But the BT is called by some still V. Albigularis Ionidesi. The BT seems to have longer toes, a slightly thinner build for their overall size, tre colors are an obvious difference with the BT being black, with gray, blue, yellow and white markings with large spots going down its back. The WT ranges from tan, brown, white, yellow, with reddish, orangish markings in some. They can interbreed but there are more obvious differences between them than some other complexes of species. Here is a WT (banded).

Hi,

White throat monitors (V. albigularis Daudin 1803) and black throat monitors (V. albogularis Daudin 1802) are the same species when you look at osteology (bones/skulls), hemipenal structures, lungs, and geographic distribution. There is no isolated geographical distribution for V. albigularis species', no differences in skull and anatomical parts, hence their variance is attributed merely to geographic variety in phenotypic pattern/color = they look different across Africa because of elevation, distance from equator, and for size, dietary menu and caloric intake makes this difference. As I posted below somewhere, the record size for V. albigularis is 7'3" from a Tanzanian specimen. Howver earlier reports from H.M. Stanley (1890), and other explorer/naturalists of the nineteenth century report 7-8 foot V. albigularis, and I have no reason to doubt them, as these same people reported 8-9 foot V. niloticus. The largest of this species is a female 7'11" 3/4 shot just a few years ago in South Africa Natal. A female, so males which do get larger would be about 9 feet from this valid measurement and encounter.

Not every pet shop person has time/inclination to review thousands of literature for such info as I find on a regular basis in the most abstract obscure places! Recently from a book on African slave trader ship had tremendous information on W. Africa V. ornatus.

Cheers,
mbayless

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Breeding the father (banded WT) with a cross (his one daughter).

Thanks everyone for clearing this up, especially Shvar!

Shvar show you individuals of two subspecies and a cross between them. The problem is there are many more types.

They are indeed subspecies, The southern ones being V.a.albigularis, and the more nothern types being, V.a.mircostictus. With a tanzanian morph being called, Ionides. It once was called, V.a.ionides. Ionides are the type most often imported and bred in the states. The happen to the the type that occurs around the major exporters.

There are many many more completely different isolated populations of this group. These do appear in the states from time to time.

Remember, subspecific differences are small, like color, size, some morphological differences. They are suppose to intergrade where two subspecies meet. The use of subspecies names are suppose to inform you of regional differences. F

But there were a few examples.

Hi Shvar,

You're the first person I know of since 1925 to use that term "Sienna white throat" - did I tell you about that one, or do you also have pics of them?? You tell me what you know about them, and I will tell you what I know - or visa-versa if you like?

Feel free to email me on this...cheers Shvar,
markb

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