Reptile & Amphibian Forums

its just too much work to clean. i have a lot of cages and was wondering what should i do. i did see this peal and stick flooring at home depot that was really cheap. my question is would it be too slick for the dragons. i have also seen people useing tile. i have my dragons in 30 breeders and i would need to cut some of the tiles to fit. how would i do this and pictures would be great. thanks.
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Jeff Kearney
Orlando, FL

1.0.0 Egyptian Uromastyx (Dino)
2.7.0 Bearded Dragons (Too many to name)
1.0.0 Mali Uromastyx (Rex)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Ali)
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Layla)
1.0.0 Panther Gecko (Melman)
0.0.1 Corn Snake (Not sure yet)
0.0.2 Blue Phase Dumpys Tree Frog (Sticky, Squishy)

The peal and stick flooring is most likely too slick. You need something with a slight rough finish. Non stick shelf liner works. Slate tile needs to be cut with a wet saw I believe..unless your cages are 4'x2' or similar 'whole' foot increments. The tiles come in 12"x12" squares so in a 4'x2' cage, 8 tiles will fit nicely.

One way to find out is cut some cereal boxes into 12"x12" squares and lay them on the bottom of your cage, see how they fit.

Other non particulate substrates are paper towel, plastic table cloth, newspaper, ceramic tile (rough finish, not smooth to allow for traction. Basically if it feel smooth to you, its going to be smooth for your dragons). With ceramic, it has to be finished (matte finish is good...or satin, ceramic is porous even when kiln fired...moisture can get inside and trap bacteria).
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PHLdyPayne

Adults in a 30 Breeder? 30 breeders are 36" x 18" or 4.5 sq. feet. The minimum size for an adult should be 4' x 2' or 8 sq. feet. Your cages are not much more than 1/2 the minimum size required. Personally 4' x 2' is small and they should be housed in larger accomodations.

we've already been over this in the past. i feel that my tanks are fine, i guess im not as lucky as you where i can build big cages and have all this space. that wasnt the question i asked on here. i hate getting on this and asking and question and getting critisisim from people. im 19 years old living off minimum wage. i dont have the money to spend. dont bother answering any of my other posts because you dont have anyting helpful to say.
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Jeff Kearney
Orlando, FL

1.0.0 Egyptian Uromastyx (Dino)
2.7.0 Bearded Dragons (Too many to name)
1.0.0 Mali Uromastyx (Rex)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Ali)
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Layla)
1.0.0 Panther Gecko (Melman)
0.0.1 Corn Snake (Not sure yet)
0.0.2 Blue Phase Dumpys Tree Frog (Sticky, Squishy)

Jeff,

It is actually pretty easy to cut tile. The tool used is more of a breaker than a cutter. I say that cause the way they work is you score the tile and then snap it with the tool.

You can find boxes of returned tile in the major stores for sale very cheap. The tool costs like 20 bucks and lasts forever. I have used mine on 5 cages and two bathrooms.

Just make sure the tiles fit tight. You don't want them getting there nails caught. You will also want to file down any sharp corners. You can do that with hand file...but, a bench grinder works much better and faster.

Good Luck

Ernie
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www.midnightdragons.net

Sorry you took my post as criticism, that wasn't my intension. I have only the animals well being in mind. Perhaps you could keep less animals in larger enclosures? These forums are for everyone's opinions. Often they are not the same as yours. If you don't want people to know what size enclosures you put your animals in then just don't post it. It's not fair to berate me for stating substandard care. This is what this forum is all about, providing the best care.

>>>>>>>>>>If you don't want people to know what size enclosures you put your animals in then just don't post it
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Jeff Kearney
Orlando, FL

1.0.0 Egyptian Uromastyx (Dino)
2.7.0 Bearded Dragons (Too many to name)
1.0.0 Mali Uromastyx (Rex)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Ali)
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Layla)
1.0.0 Panther Gecko (Melman)
0.0.1 Corn Snake (Not sure yet)
0.0.2 Blue Phase Dumpys Tree Frog (Sticky, Squishy)

Getting back to the subject of sand...lol.

I use playsand as well and I'm getting sick of it too....I clean it all the time and it always smells. I might try a dirt mix myself and see if that's any better.

Shaun

2 things i recommend
DUCT brand non stick shelf liner from walmart. cut it to size and there ya go. like 12 bucks a roll or something like that. i only have one dragon left so i cut out 2 peices to the size of the cage. one is a reserve for when i clean the other.

2 is tile. home depot carries all kinds of tile. get something that is sealed but not too smooth so your dragon has traction. home depot will actually cut them for you if you buy them there and have the measurements.
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Judson
Beach Beardies

0.1. bearded dragon
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

I like paper. I had great luck with the indented kraft paper that you can buy from uline.com in either rolls or sheets. I actually built my cages so they are the exact width of the paper.......but I am now using newspaper and like that too. I like being able to clean and know that it is actually clean! If you are just scooping up poo in sand, no doubt you still have some residual left from the feces.
chris

i use a variety of substrates for my beardies...i use tile for magellan which he loves nd its sooooo easy to clean and i use paper towels and newspaper for the hatchlings but the paper towels can get a lil costly after a while...galileo and lizzy get newspaper but i would like to switch them over to tile eventually as well once their custom homes are built...ive tried the outdoor carpet/reptile carpet but its just too much of a hassle to clean after a while since hey tend to soil it so quickly even tho its a lil more pleasing to the eye than newspaper, shelf liner and paper towels...if ur willin to do the tile i suggest that if not id say the newspaper
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1.0.0 Frilled Dragon - Frank
0.0.1 Rhinoceros Iguana - Mo
2.1.0 Bearded Dragons - Magellan, Galileo, Lizzy
Plus babies on the way! =]

if i have 30gallon breeder tanks 36x18 in what exacly should i get. it seems real cheap and easy. ill be using it on 5 tanks
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Jeff Kearney
Orlando, FL

1.0.0 Egyptian Uromastyx (Dino)
2.7.0 Bearded Dragons (Too many to name)
1.0.0 Mali Uromastyx (Rex)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Ali)
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Layla)
1.0.0 Panther Gecko (Melman)
0.0.1 Corn Snake (Not sure yet)
0.0.2 Blue Phase Dumpys Tree Frog (Sticky, Squishy)

really cheap and easy, go for newspaper or paper towel. Need more paper than what you read at night, steal some from the neighbor's recycle box, just don't be messy about it.
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PHLdyPayne

Hey Chris,

Are you buying the rolls or the sheets? I just checked out the site and it looks like it would work quite well....How expensive does that get though?

Shaun

I used to buy the rolls, and have had a couple rolls in storage for 5 years now so I used it recently. It works great, and has grip, but you are right that you have to pay a bit more for it than say newspaper. If the width is right, then all you have to do is overlap two pieces in the center and your set.......if the width is too wide, then I used to fold the two pieces, then overlap in the center. I have a dispenser for the rolls as well, so you just pull it out and tear.......very easy, plus if the dragon only poops on one side, you can just change out one side of the cage for a quick cleaning! It is also fairly rigid, so it doesnt move around as much as newspaper.

I really used to promote the stuff back when I was breeding and posting here. The only drawback is the cost. I believe the sheets would cost a good bit more than rolls.

so if i buy the 18" roll i can roll it out 3feet and lay it flat on the whole bottom of the cage? im not sure what you meant by overlaping(were you talking about using the sheets?)
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Jeff Kearney
Orlando, FL

1.0.0 Egyptian Uromastyx (Dino)
2.7.0 Bearded Dragons (Too many to name)
1.0.0 Mali Uromastyx (Rex)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Ali)
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Layla)
1.0.0 Panther Gecko (Melman)
0.0.1 Corn Snake (Not sure yet)
0.0.2 Blue Phase Dumpys Tree Frog (Sticky, Squishy)

You can butcher's paper...the one they use to wrap meat in. I hear that works pretty well, also.

I meant overlapping in that instead of measuring the exact lenght of the piece of paper you need(say your length of tank is 36" as you said yours is), you pull out just a bit more than half that, twice, and overlap in the middle. Instead of measuring exactly or folding that is how I used to do it.

Im picky to where I dont like paper sticking up or not fitting the way it should......its got to be exact and lay flat.

I we talking using paper for breeding or just for owner conviniance. I use a sand soil mixture and have no problems with smell and it cleans easily. Also if you have wood or rocks for basking wouldnt you have to take them out everytime to replace paper. I dont see how anyone can say their dragon loves being on paper or tile, my dragon never speaks to me I just try to do what is most natural. The original poster has 7 females aybe u should try and house some together in a bigger enclosure and sell off some of the breeders. With 9 seperate encosures that means u have 9 basking spots, thats alot of electic being wasted if some of the females can tolerate each other and be housed together.

A 30 Berreder is 18" outside measure so 18" paper will have to be trimmed or folded slightly.

In sand, if your real sensitive about residual after scooping poop then don't scoop with a screen strainer. Use a solid shovel and you will leave no contaminated sand.

A good soil doesn't smell, is easy to spot clean, and works terrifically for the animal itself. It provides a great temperature AND moisture gradient, and allows for physical exercise as well.

Playsand/plain sand is completely different than a good soil, or a good sand/soil mix.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn, can you describe - or give the "recipe" for - what you consider to be a good soil or soil mix?

There are lots of soils that will work well, and even more that work poorly.

An easy one to start with is a simple mix you can get at Home Depot- topsoil, sand and vermiculite in a 50/25/25 mix. That mix burrows well, digs well, and holds moisture well.

Keep in mind that topsoil is NOT potting soil. Also consider that lots of lizard keepers use soil from their backyards, the local forest, lots of places. "Sandy loam" is also a pretty good start, if you have some locally available to you.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I think I'm going to try that soil mix from Home Depot, it's got to better than this playsand.

Shaun

One bad thing about soil is you're going to have dirty dragons. I switched from soil in my nest boxes because of this.

It's a very valid and interesting question about motivation and husbandry issues.

The first poster in the thread wanted something easier for himself. He also didn't want to get hassled about tiny cages because he didn't have the time, desire, or "resources" to do larger caging for all his animals. Soil/natural substrate seems like "too much work", and larger caging is "too expensive".

Other folks have brought up having dirty lizards in a soil cage before as well.

Other keepers like tile because it "looks better" to them.

I guess it comes down to the various reasons that folks keep reptiles. Different keepers have a different focus. Some keep lizards with a pet focus, keeper-centric.

Some keep lizards with a lizard focus, reptile-centric. Some keep lizards for a combo of reasons. Some kid themselves about why they keep lizards : )

20 years ago, my focus was strictly pet oriented. As Pro Exotics and my reptile career progressed, it became more reptile-centric.

My focus is not on a pretty setup, but rather a useful one for the animal itself. Not on a visually pretty hidespot, but on a short, tight, functional one. Lizards and monitors get dirty in a soil substrate, I suppose, but not so that you can't see their patterns.

If I need to do pics, I can rinse them off and they look beautiful, that works for me.

I would rather see folks keep reptiles with the animal's best interest in mind, rather than their own, but that is not always realistic, and again, different folks have different motivations for why, and how, they enjoy the hobby.

In the grand scheme of things, we ALL keep reptiles in small boxes, so it is all very relative, we all make choices and compromises, I suppose it just comes down to where you find that line : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

You forgot one. Income-centric. Resellers don't really fit into either the keeper-centric or reptile-centric as you describe them.

That could be true, yes. But then again, you see folks get in over their heads as to what they can afford, and that is a keeper choice.

Some folks end up with a bunch of adults crammed into a few small cages, all miserable, all with short life spans. It is "too expensive" to get proper caging, yet you could actually address the issue, and the quality of life for the lizards, by scaling down to a more realistic goal, maybe just keeping one or two lizards, and devoting resources to them, as opposed to skimping on resources over a group of animals.

That is related to economics, but can be addressed through better choices, ya know?
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Yes, I agree. Too many newbies want to jump in with both feet today with the thought that they will be the next super breeder. In the end the newbie and the animals suffer. Unfortunately the animals have no choice in the matter.

Could someone please post a pic of their tile setup? Also, how do you keep the feces from going down the side of the tile and underneath?
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2.2.4 Tangerine Carrot Tail Baldy Leos
1.0 Butter Corn
0.1 Striped Amel Corn

silicon sealer around the edges of all the tiles will prevent seepage underneath. Or, you have to take the tiles out regularly to wash and disinfect them and the floor of the cage.
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PHLdyPayne