Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I heard this frequently exists in spiders but I'm not sure what it is exactly. Can someone please explain.
Also, does it affect the health of the snake?

Thanks in advance

Does nothin bad to the animal, it happens in some degree with all of them, and that is why i will never get one, same as i will never get a C albino

I don't understand why some people think the head wobble is a bad thing. It has no effect on their health, their eating nor their breeding ability. Spiders are some of the best breeders you will ever have. I think they are unique because no other snakes do this. We have some spiders that barely wobble and others that will do loops. A looping spider can produce offspring that barely wobble and a spider that barely wobbles can produce some that loop. I have never seen our spiders wobbling while they were on the cage floor, only when they lift their body off the cage floor or when they are picked up. It seems like they get vertigo when they are off the ground.

Just my 2 cents, I know others are entitled to their opinions.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Would you consider it a good thing? Just because an animal eats and breeds does not mean it has a normal quality of life. Can you honestly say when you see one of your spiders doing loops you don't consider it a negative? I don't look down on anyone who decides to breed spiders, but I don't understand why people try to say it is not a negative attribute.
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John Vandegrift

We have a bumble bee that loops all out and she is a beauty, we say she dances to no music and look forward to breeding her. Also for this reason she has been given the name spinner.

Personally I would say that if it does not hinder the health, eating, or breeding the animal, nor does the animal seem to be in any form of discomfort from it, why should we label it a negative attribute.

Are morphs a negative attribute because they have an unnormal coloring?

matt

I'm sorry it's just my opinion, but when an animal flips around in circles and "dances" as you put it when trying to crawl I consider it a negative attribute.
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John Vandegrift

Why doesn't it have a normal quality of life? What is it lacking in the quality of life department? None of our spiders seem to be in pain. They seem to enjoy human interaction. We don't have to assist feed them. They are some of the best breeders in the world. What does a normal ball python have that a spider doesn't? OK, so when you pick them up sometimes they don't seem to know which way is up. Does this mean they don't have quality of life? All our spiders are more outgoing than other balls, maybe spiders enjoy life a little more and have a better quality of life.

I feel that spiders have gotten a bad rap because of the "wobble". I wonder how many people that think negatively about spiders have actually kept one to see how cool they really are?
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

I totally agree with you that they are a cool morph. I don't want to get into a big argument here but there is no way either of us know what the snakes are feeling. It could feel nothing when it is spinning, or it could be in excruciating pain. I choose not to breed them but many people do. I don't have a problem with that at all. It's up to each individual breeder. My problem is when people try to say it's just a personality trait or something similar. I think this kind of misleads new breeders just getting into BP's. I think if everyone knew exactly how bad some spiders can spin/wobble there would be a lot more people who would choose not to work with them. If it was always just a minor tick or head tilt I would probably have ten of them by now, but after seeing how bad some can be I decided they were not the morph for me. I do wonder sometimes if it was a dog or a cat instead of a snake if people would feel the same way about breeding them.
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John Vandegrift

I agree with you, I don't want to turn this into a big arguement, just a discussion and I agree that we have no way of knowing how they feel.

I don't think they are in any pain while spinning. They mainly do it when lifted from their cage, but I've watched ours doing it in their cage, as if they are inspecting the ceiling. I would think that if it was painful they wouldn't do this. They don't have much control over when we pick them up, but they do when they are cruising around their cage.

Another reason I don't think they are in pain is because if they were in pain when they are picked up they would probably bite you, which is typical of an animal that is in pain. We have a chow chow. He recently dislocated his right rear leg, he basically did the splits in the middle of the floor. When Michelle went to help him he bit her because of the pain that he was in. He even tried to bite the vet when she was examining him. All this from a dog that has never shown any aggression toward anyone.

You also mention that if it was a dog or a cat instead of a snake if people would feel the same way about breeding them.
Look at all the skeletal, skin and neurological problems that are associated with different breeds of dogs and cats, yet people still breed them. We also have a purebred Sheltie, he is getting older and has hip dysplasia. It breaks my heart to watch him get up because he has to work so hard to get his back legs under him, but the breeder that we got him from is still churning out puppies.

Like I said, I'm not trying to start or continue a big arguement, just presenting some other ideas to think about. I have watched spiders get bashed for some time now and felt that someone should stand up for them.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com