Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In the age of Co-doms, are we neglecting to continue working with recessive combos.

I often hear the ''I'm only in it for the money'' and co-doms are a fast return on investment.

Take Hypos for instance, they just outright clean-up all Co-doms in combo projects, what about all the other recessives?

Is it only about a fast ROI? How many here will keep working with these fine creature when they are a dime a dozen? I know I will

I will, right now I have a bumble bee and a super pastel, which we all know are Doms and Co Doms, but my next snakes I am planning on getting a clown and a pied, both of these snakes rock. Recessives may be more work and time to show but they look super awesome and that makes it all worth it. I can't wait to make a pastel clown some day, I love the head pattern.

matt

With the exception of Clowns, (those, I love) none of the readily available recessives really excite me all that much (Pieds are atrocious seriously). So other than wanting to attain some Clowns someday, I'm more than happy working with my co-doms (soon to be doubles and triples). Has nothing to with ROI for me. They just look better, and they are more fun to breed because you don't have to wait years to reproduce them. Just my 2 cents, so to speak.

I work with both Co-Doms and Recessives here in the UK.
With anything Recessive, I tend to buy a pair.

I have pairs of Axanthics, Caramels, Albinos, Hypos and Pieds.
I reproduce these pure, and then mix the genes into the Co-Dom morphs.

I for one, don't care what the genetic build up is, If I like the animal, I'll breed for the trait, regardless of time, effort and money.

Axanthics are very cool also, not to mention the double res. like the pied Axanthic produced earlier this year, and the clown pied from TSK.

Alot of work but great looking animals, not to mention it is hard to get your first double morph with res. but it is all easier when you can breed it back to the parents and hets.

matt

Sadly, with Caramels as an example, breeding back to parents and related hets can bring up kinks.
Increases the odds of seeing a Caramel Clown or Caramel Whatever with kinking.
The greatest feeling in the world served with a groinstrike chaser.

The kinked Caramel Genetic Stripe is simply heartbreaking.
I'd love it as a pet, yeah, but really....come on. lol

Pewter X StingerBee?
Grrreat pairing and not likely to be sibs or close relatives.

Just a thought when I'm thinking 'co-domVSrecessive'...

BB

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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

I think you aren't giving enough credit to alot of the recessive combos... especially when they are mixed with co-doms... like the freakishly awesome killer clown. But if you can handle the delayed gratification for an animal not many people have that's the way i would prefer to go. But that's just my opinion..

I'm an impatient person, so co-doms offer a great chance to speed up ideas & recipes.
Absolute blunt truth.

I'm a colubrid guy first.
So I've been playing with recessives, and thinking in a '24-36 month' mindset, for like 10 years now...lol

The various co-dom/dom Ball morphs are the Herpetocultural equivalent of the microwave to some of us.

It also comes down to cash.
I agree that many co-dom/Recessive combos are among the most stunning combos.

But for $8,000?? (Lav Albino)
I can buy the necessary male/female hatchling/sub-adult/adult co-dom animals to make triple/quadruple combos not yet seen.
In less time...
With a greater variety of hatchlings possible. I live for a good 'mixer' clutch.

Ever seen a Mojave KillerBee?
Me neither...
But for alot less than $8,000, I can scoop up a young male Pastave and a couple sub-adult female BumbleBees and possibly hatch my very own Mojave KillerBee by this time next year.

Super Pastel Cinnamon Butter? Sounds tasty...
Pewter Spinner?
Same deal as above. Easily less than 8k, either possibly hatching for me by next summer.

Just an exlanation as to why I gravitate towards co-doms when it comes time to make breeding plans and spend my herpcash.

I can't spend it all on Balls.
There's colubrids to be had.
And dart frogs too.

I thank those for working with the more expensive recessives.
For me, a fun-loving hobbyist, EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS equates to 'animalssssss' not 'animal'.

Keep what you love.
Love what you keep.

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

The previous two posters hit the nail on the head. There are certainly easier choices than recessive combos.

But I have been surprised lately at the price of some for sure and some possible double het males. I just bought a two breedable male possible double hets (one albino stripe and the other albino pied) from RDR for $100 each and am very happy with them. He also has for sure double het males for some projects pretty reasonable. I've already got single mutation possible het females to breed these guys too so I've got a chance of producing visable morphs that are possible het for another morph pretty quick for little investment.

you never owned a really nice ghost then....

.......I'm sticking ghost with everything....and pastel of course......

...boring is cinammons......?..really......sable....some YB....and many more codoms.......

LOL.......

.......we all want to own one of every morph......where you at?.........

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.LOL.........anyways.......
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".......we all want to own one of every morph......where you at?........."

Jeff, I agree with you about the Hypos but I have to disagree with you on the statement you made concerning wanting to own one of every morph 'cause I want at least 3 or 4 of every morph.

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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

......3 here too but I am limited with space and I think we'd actually get bored with 2 of anything if we had them all........LOL.....not.......

.....there are actually ALOT of morphs and combos that I will probably never own ot want to own.......alot aren't "all that" at all......boring or just dumb crosses....

....but yes we all want clown whitesmokes and pastel(clown) and we all want crystals and some form of super stripe....maybe super stripe,,,ummm,,,lav...no....super striped hypo caramel.....(there's the ghost!)LOL

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Maybe its just me, but traditional Albinos are still one of my favorite morphs...

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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Not here, I focus primarily on recessives, not that I neglect the co-doms. They are defiantly NOT an instant gratification project. I have only bought one visual recessive and the only reason why is because it was the best looking hypo I had ever seen. My axanthic, albino, clown, pied, caramel, and for the most part my hypo projects have all started with two het males and in some cases, a few possible het females. Call me crazy, but there is nothing like the feeling of hatching out a visual that you did not have before, yes the wait is long, but when you pay for the time spent with one sale and your first visual is one that you helped nature produce....that is all the gratification I need.

Recessives are what got me into the whole ball python market. No matter what albinos will always turn some heads and complimenting them with a codom will net you much more money even in hets and even more in visuals. I think without the recessives the ball python market will be flooded with reducing market value snakes like pastels, yellow bellies, and spiders. The faster you can make them means that for the other person making them and the declining value. Ball pythons arent a get rich scheme and if thats your case then your in the wrong business. Dont get me wrong we all need pastels, YBs, and spiders but when they all hold the value of normals almost to me and some others I would consider them runoff especially males. All in all they go hand in hand in my opinion.