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Anyone that ships snakes.....What do you do when snakes are delivered dead, due to the shipping company's error? Is the seller responsible for refunding the complete price (shipping and cost of animals)? Or does the buyer lose the shipping cost, but get the cost of the animals refunded.
input appreciated
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****Misty****
www.sneakyserpents.com
"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"
I personally guarantee live arrival - and hope it never happens to me.
I'm seriously thinking about padding each shipment with $5.00 above cost to save towards shipping refunds when that happens, because that would seriously suck.
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Arrrggg!
It's like Shalom, but for pirates.
- iCarly
In my view the shipper has the responsibility to deliver the animal(s) alive. If this does not happen, then the customer should get a full refund. It doesn't matter if it's the carrier's fault. When a customer buys from you they are expecting their animal(s) to be delivered alive and if they don't get that, they should get their money back (including shipping costs).
I think that when a customer buys from a breeder they are looking for that breeder to not only provide a quality animal, but to also provide quality shipping. I realize that this is out of the realm of what the breeder can control (I've heard many, many tales of shipping mishaps), but that's what the customer is paying for - an animal and proper transportation of that animal from a carrier. The customer is trusting the breeder to make the right choice in selecting a carrier.
Tim
Third Eye
I've been lucky and have not had any I shipped arrive dead yet but I would refund the full amount I was paid including shipping. No question about it.
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Randy Whittington
I would refund full price including shipping.I've been fortunate in that I've never had a snake die during shipping although,I've a late arrival or 2. Jeff
yup
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I've never shipped any critters, but have shipped a lot on ebay. This issue comes up alot of times for various reasons. But the way I understand it, the seller/shipper is fully responsible. Even if they say in their ad they are not. This is why most people do delivery confirmation if not certified delivery. Then they add in insurance. Now I have no idea if you can insure snakes? But doing a claim is tough on any item, so an animal would be crazy IMO, the P.O. has many fraudulent claims of course, so they make you jump thru hoops. Doing a claim an expensive pied bald ball would be interesting. Wellthats my liittle spice of info.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom
you can add insurance on a package but it is pointless because the postal company will not gurantee an animals live arrival even if it is their fault.
adam
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
Correct on the no guarantee part. With FedEx you sign a contract that specifically waives any liability for dead animals regardless of the reason. So why would you buy insurance? A full refund of all moneys paid is in order.
Unfortunately, that is part of the whole snake shipping game. This is one of those things that just happen from time to time that the sender/breeder is forced to "eat", and move on. All you can do is hope it doesn't happen very often.
If it were a book, or other inanimate object, there could be some recourse, but with live animals, it's impossible to prove it is undoubtedly the carrier's fault that it died, even though it certainly is in many cases, there are just to many possibilities with a live animal of any kind.
To prove it WAS indeed a certain parties fault, you would have to hire a good attorney, such as Johnny Cochran, and have a cute "catch phrase" concocted such as...."if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!", only applied in some ridiculous fashion to fit the particular dead snake situation. The sarcasm I used here is a little silly, but basically very true nonetheless.
~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"
What if the purchaser was not available to accept the shipment and did not respond to the carriers notification of attempt to deliver say until the next day?
I try to understand all sides. It gets me in trouble a lot as I seem to ride the fence. I have my view, but I try hard to understand others too,,, so!
The shipping compnay is suppose to use ereasonable care in delivering a package. Not all people pack the same Tim S use to come to teh pet shop I helped at to get these very cool styros. Picture 11" cube with a 4" hole down the center. Point is, how can the comapny set a standard on aniamls, which they do not understand, and people all pack differnetly. So, if it got cold or hot, I can see them saying it's a part of shipping.
BUT if it got ran over my a tow motor I'm be stumping someones arse. I had a package delivered to me. It wa a 24 hour over night envolop. What was left of it was in a pastic bag. As I recall only 1/2 was left. And it was dirty and looked like it went thru a meat grinder.
That is not reasonable care, and I DO think a shipping is resonsible with or without shipping if something like that happens. They do have a legal level of performance expectation.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh I feel better!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom
Hay Adam, I figured that. I've never had to do a claim. But I chat on ebay a lot, and those guys make it sound like a full out war battle.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom
make it very clear on what is or is not guaranteed. The shipper is supposed to be the professional who should understand the various problems involved in shipping. The customer may, or may not, know much about the process.
If the shipper has some limitations on their live arrival guarantee (such as residential delivery, high or low temps, packages being signed for, time limits to pick up package, etc), then they need to make it very clear to the customer. That will allow the customer to either alter their shipping day, address, etc, to make it safer, or to accept some risk in a particular situation, or to cancel the order if the terms are not acceptable. If the shipper does not specify limitations, then the shipper should take responsibility for any problems. Just my own opinion of course - I am certainly not a lawyer, lol!
I liked you. 
So many people or businesses don't care of the things you spoke of, just the sale. They forget the sale is not complete util the customer gets his purchase and is satisfied.
I'm not just speaking of herps, but just in life. I make the biggest mental notes I can when I run into a business that actually does customer service like You were speaking of Kathy.
Resently I bought a carborator rebuilding kit. 1 key part was wrong. They spent hours with me, and for a $9 kit? I was impressed.
Rarely will you see a business last without it.
COOL spider link
http://www.onemotion.com/flash/spider/
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom
and want to be in business long term, they will also value honesty and customer service. Nobody is perfect all the time, but if you are trying hard, and make things right if there is a mistake, most customers will be very happy.
Of course, there are people who will take advantage of you, so you have to have a policy on various possible problems, but then be ready to bend the rules on a case by case basis, as needed.
I do not have an unlimited live arrival shipping guarantee. I know from experience that picking up at the FedEx office is the safest and least stressful (for the snakes) method of shipping. So I "reward" customers willing to pick up there with a full guarantee, (as long as they pick up the same day it arrives), even if FedEx sends it to Alaska, loses it for a week, or runs it over with a truck (none of those things have happened - YET.). But if customers insist on residential delivery, then they pay a higher price (to cover FedEx additional fees) and the live arrival guarantee is limited to packages that arrive by noon and are signed for, and I WON'T cover residential delivery packages for carrier error. They know that up front, and many opt to pick up at FedEx, which makes me happy, and the snakes happy. Or they either accept some risk (very little, but some), or shop elsewhere. But they know ahead of time what to expect.
So far, I have never had a customer who lost out because of my residential guarantee, but it has convinced a lot of them to pick up at FedEx, which I believe it a good result.
As far as the shipping cost refund, even though FedEx contracts say they won't even refund that when it is their fault, I have found that they usually do refund shipping cost when the package is late, except when due to weather delays. I have never had a problem shipment that came on time, so shipping cost refunds have not been an issue.
Kathy, your reputation is seen even in all of your posts. I am NOT a kiss butt. I've never met you, although we spoke a few times on the phone. You think things out, when some don't. Your just a nice person.
Not much more to say, other people say it all for you. I can honestly say I have never heard anything remotely bad about you. You are a class act.
NOW, if I can stop being taken to the hospital, like this past weekend my BP might have been as low at 60/30 and was recorded as 74/40 just standing up, and they would not allow me to walk. And we make it thru my daughter being in college so daddy has some play money again. I do plan on Buying a few things from you, and also Don S. I use the word few to confuse teh wife. 
~
Thank you for being who you are.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom
lots of sites say not responsible for shipping error
...it won't make anyone happy
.........one reason I don't ship....
....
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>>Anyone that ships snakes.....What do you do when snakes are delivered dead, due to the shipping company's error? Is the seller responsible for refunding the complete price (shipping and cost of animals)? Or does the buyer lose the shipping cost, but get the cost of the animals refunded.
>>input appreciated
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>>****Misty****
>>
>>
Hey Misty,
I've had it happen. I immediately refunded the full amount. Shipping included.
Even though I truly felt it wasn't my fault, it was the only thing I could do.
They paid ME to send them a pair of corns.
I sent the corns but they never arrived.I couldn't expect them to pay for something they never received.
I've had it happen twice. Once I sent the money back immediately, as I mentioned above. The other instance they were ready to accept replacements so I sent them replacements at my cost.
I just don't see any other way to look at it.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes
_____
jimmy-
thats why your the man!!! 
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, A pair of Leucistic Black Rat X Leucistic Texas Rat Intergrades, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn, Ball Pythons, A reverse Trio of Candoia, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping Turtle, a White Cheeked Mud Turtle, a Bearded Dragon, an Adult Rescue Iguana, and A Baby Iguana
Jimmy, this is why I wish there was a more direct way to see what buyers think. Like ebay. There are so many independant sellers now. I know there is a site to see, but it would be nice to have it right on your own site, or if using KS have a feedback there.
And kudos on yoru policy. I do the same when I sold on ebay.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom
I havent had to deal with this yet, but here's the way I see it.
If the animal dies in transit, SOMEONE has to pay for it. So, who should pay for it? Is it the buyers fault? Not at all. Is it the shippers fault? Not all. As long a some sort of guarantee is expressed before the sale.
However, as a customer, it sucks twice as bad to have to buy a dead animal, than it does to be a shipper and just eat the cost of an animal that died in shipping.
So, the way I see it is that the buyer should not be penalized for something the shipping company did.
The easiest thing a shipper can do is send another animal to replace the dead one. This way they're only out the shipping costs. Again, it's just the lesser of two evils. Neither party is at fault here. Hopefully the shipper can make a claim with the shipping company and recover some of those costs involved. I assume this only works if you're a verified live animal shipper through someone like FedEx or Delta.
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Tom
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"
in their reptile contracts that they guarantee NOTHING to us. If we want to use their service, they will not cover any mistakes, even if they should run over the package with a truck.
The airlines will let you insure live shipments, although I have heard that it is almost (but not quite) impossible to collect on it. You have to prove that the airline was at fault - not as easy as you might think. So don't plan on making a recovery from the carrier.
Although I agree the shipper should be responsible unless the buyer violates the guarantee (by not signing for it or not being home, or whatever the terms are), it is not always as simple as having unlimited numbers of similar animals to send replacements. And of course, the animals do have a cost, whether the shipper bought them from someone else, or whether he / she paid for the time and cost of production themselves.
But I understand what you mean, and I do more-or-less agree with you.
"But I understand what you mean, and I do more-or-less agree with you."
Right right, all those details aside that you mentioned (that I didnt know about each shipper) that was just my general attitude about the whole thing. Of course the animals do have a value/cost to them, and some of them might be pretty unique and unreplaceable, but I wasnt feeling partiularly wordy at the time and just felt like discussing the overall attitude I have Each scenario will be slightly different.
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Tom
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"
I can only answer for myself here, but if a snake died during shipping because of the shipping service and in no fault of myself or the customer I would either replace the snake if possible or give a full refund.
to all those that replied. I went on vaccation directly after posting this and was surprised to see this many responses.
Thanks again for everyones thoughts, time!
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****Misty****
www.sneakyserpents.com
"The more things change, the more they remain Insane"
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