Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently got critisized by someone through e-mail

because I had said that my Jungle was High Expression.

To my belief the Jungle traight has varying degrees of

expression thus having Possible Jungles as the lowest form.

The Super abberant chain link pattern being the Most Extreme or Highest Expression.

I have always compared the Jungle traight and the Coral traight being very similiar.

I am only expressing that this male was a "Super High Expression

Jungle" due to the fact that he has Overly Exsagerated Jungle Traights.

I should have picked my words more wisely and left out the the word Super.

I am by no means trying to pass this guy off as a Super Jungle or trying to mislead anyone by this lable.

I think the difference between a Jungle and Super jungle is obvious.

What's your thoughts?

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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.

blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

WWW.BLACKFORESTCONSTRICTORS.COM

Hey Ash, I think that when ppeole don't see the whole crazy chain link pattern or chain link saddles at all they think low expresion. I am with you in that there are other criteria to judge than the saddle pattern. That animal stands out as a jungle very much so and I bet stands out alot to his sibling jungles as well. His contrast is exteme, and I think that is what makes him a high expresion jungle in that aspect. He definatly is a jungle with those whacky saddles and tail.

Great cross by the way, it will be fun to watch those grow up with the white gene in there. I have noticed from Gray's, mine and your litter of red group jungles, that many seem to be "low expresion" as far as the full saddle abarancy department is concerned, but awsome as far as other jungle characteristics are concerned.

That male is awsome and if he stands out way more from the other jungles than he is definatly a high expresion animal from that litter.
Brian Logan

We are back again to the term jungle being interpreted the wrong way. There is a difference in my opinion between a "high expression" jungle and a highly abberant jungle. That boa shows more of the many indicators associated with the jungle gene than some of the highly abberant jungles that lack the other traits of a jungle. Great looking high expression jungle by the way!

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

I guess I just assumed that the general public was up to par as

to the mechanics of the Jungle mutation.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that see's the Jungle traight

being expressed in varying degrees.

Now the NEW QUESTION is .......

Can a Low Expression Jungle produce High Expression Form ?

( Like Coral Albino's)

I have witnessed this in my own breeding,but am too

inexperience with the Total Conscences on the matter since this

is the only Jungle litter that I produced.
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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.

blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

WWW.BLACKFORESTCONSTRICTORS.COM

While clearly a Jungle I can see where people disagree with the high expression term. It is lacking high expression in a few traits of classic jungles mostly the color and speckling on the sides and the clearly seen outline of the saddles.

I think of a very clean Jungle with great color and speckling on the sides with dramatic contrast and outlines on the saddles a high expression Jungle regardless of the abberancies. I would have to place yours in the low expression catagory. Just my .02

with VCARUSO15 on his interpretation of what constitutes a high
expression jungle. High expression IMHO would have a very crisp
pattern and be clean as well. The abberancies or lack of, do not factor in.

I have a female jungle of about the same age and size as the one
in that ad. I would not consider her a high expression jungle &
she's mine.

hey buddy, Joe here..

I saw that ad and knew you would catch heat too.. lol (those kwazy people! you can't please them all! lol)

The reason being, I would say it is not a 'high expression' at all, actually a low expression, BUT, it has extremely strong Jungle CHARACTERISTICS!

...such as bold, contrasty pattern, strong, intense dark pattern, bold and bright light pattern, thick, well pronounced borders around the tail blotches and such, and wacky head pattern and eyes. Not to mention those HUGE, BRIGHT WHITE circles at the sides of each saddle!

Those are all Jungle Characteristics that are highly exagerated on this snake, and technically that is totally different than what most people refer to as 'high expression' these days, which would mean what you had mentioned, more like a full striped or chain linked boa.

These days, Jungles are being bred into other lines, such as Salmons, OrangeTails, Central Americans, BCC, and more, so we are seeing different expressions coming out.

Some are different in color - some might be intense yellow and have pinks and yellows too, while some you see have more of that bone white color with darker pattern all together.

Some lose pattern intensity, some gain it.

Some typically throw more chain links, or stripes, and some throw more of the blocky saddle look.

EITHER WAY, you can and will produce 'high expression' Jungles from a 'low expression' adult, i've done so many times, as have many others.

So, bottom line, that's a beautiful Jungle!

Just hard to please everyone when it comes to detailed descriptions and such. Always has, always will be.

All the best, Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Is it not amazing, how you can mean something as a simple way of expressing and not mean anything underhanded or negative about it and someone take it out of context and give you, either a low or high dose of redicule for it????

Hmmm, kinda makes you feel bad Huh?

JJ

Hi John.

I was mostly upset that they bllasted me in e-mail and did not provide me a name or return address.

Hope all is well.

I'm actually leaving for the Aneheim show as soon as I finish this sentence.

Lucky me.
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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.

blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

WWW.BLACKFORESTCONSTRICTORS.COM

I'm glad I posted this thread.

I'ts so kool to get other peoples perception.

I learned a lot today.
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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.

blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

WWW.BLACKFORESTCONSTRICTORS.COM