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I Knew It! Graphic PICs!

Jeff Clark Sep 07, 2008 01:08 AM

In my post on august 31st about fetal heart tones I mentioned that in one snake I could only find one fetal heart tone. I guessed that she might be carrying mostly slugs. The snake was Borba and this is what I found checking on her tonight.

Lots of slugs with two stillborn on the left side of the PIC. The stillborns were in the pile with everything else but I moved them to see if there was any sign of life. One of the healthy babies is crawling in the pile of slugs and another healthy one is still inside the membrane with just the forward part of it's body out. That snake was breathing but was lethargic and came around with some prodding. In the past I have tried unsuccessfully to revive stillborns many times. Nothing, including external cardiac compressions, drugs and rescue breathing has worked.

At least there were the cute healthy babies.

Borba did the typical BRB post partum bulldozer thing through everything like she was looking for something.

Whats this she found? One of the stillborns. In hundreds of litters of baby snakes this is the first I have ever seen this. She had nosed one of the live babies but as soon as it moved she left it alone. They often eat slugs.


This litter sucks big time but as in all failures there are small lessons to be learned.

Replies (10)

rainbowsrus Sep 07, 2008 02:29 AM

Well, sorry to hear about the slugs and stills. At least there are some healthy babies.

On the mom, was she gently chomping the baby mid body? And then set it down? I had one female last year do that several times with a stillborn. It was like she was trying all she could to revive it. Mine looked like she was trying to stimulate breathing by compressing the lungs.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

rainbowsrus Sep 07, 2008 03:30 AM

Hmmmm, let's see how this works. I had taken these vids of the mom trying to revive her baby, figured how to get them onto my PC...


-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

aanata1 Sep 07, 2008 04:56 PM

Wow that is so sad... I just want to reach in through the computer and hug the momma... in both cases. Thanks for posting in both cases, there is much we can learn, but so sad. I'm sorry for your hard litter Jeff. At least a couple made it!
-----
6.19 BRB
10.20 BCI
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snakes
0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.2 Corn Snakes
2.8 Leopard Geckos

Jeff Clark Sep 07, 2008 05:20 PM

Dave,
...It may be an attempt to revive the babies but to me it looks more like a snake that does not know how to swallow a snake making a mistake and picking one up and then chewing like it would with a standard meal but not being able to swallow it because it does not bring the length of the baby snake into it's mouth. (I am the master of runon sentences) It did eventually drop the baby but not after chewing pretty hard for awhile.
Jeff

>>Well, sorry to hear about the slugs and stills. At least there are some healthy babies.
>>
>>On the mom, was she gently chomping the baby mid body? And then set it down? I had one female last year do that several times with a stillborn. It was like she was trying all she could to revive it. Mine looked like she was trying to stimulate breathing by compressing the lungs.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

rainbowsrus Sep 07, 2008 11:30 PM

Yeah, obviously we really don't know but the female I watched would carefully nudge and tongue flick around until it found mid body. Then gently pick up and gently mash the stillborn a few times before setting it back down. No agressive chewing going on. Watched her do this several times and never did end up eating it.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

PHFaust Sep 07, 2008 10:21 AM

While the litter sucked for ya, I really liked this photo spread! It was very interesting! Did she ingest both stillborns?
-----
Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

Jerry Sep 08, 2008 11:04 AM

Trust me I know how you feel! I had the worste year with my colubrids this year. Not sure what happened, but very depressive. I found just to focus on the positive. So, Congrats on the survivors!

gfx Sep 08, 2008 03:49 PM

Bummer. Sorry about the crappy results.

Poor thing...that just looks so sad. Maybe she's thinking of cleaning up after herself, but it sure looks like she's trying to make them live.
-----
Julie

www.[url ban]/gfx

rainbowsrus Sep 08, 2008 05:05 PM

I honestly think it's the latter, last year I watched Bullseye do that to her one stillborn baby. Several times she would flick and work around so she was mid body. Then ever so gently pick up the lifeless baby and gently mash it with her mouth at it's mid body. Then set it down and nudge it some more. I was in tears watching it, the moment was so tender and heart breaking at the same time. There might not be much cognitive thought in a reptile but there is clearly a strong maternal instinct in BRB's. Anyone who has watched a mom interact with her newly laid litter can clearly see that. Watching them nudge the babies around stimulating them into moving.

One more piece IMO was finding three litters upon my return from vacation. Yeah some babies were out exploring but many were in the same moss hide as mom. NONE crushed, mom at one end, babies more at the other.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

FRoberts Sep 10, 2008 12:18 PM

>>In my post on august 31st about fetal heart tones I mentioned that in one snake I could only find one fetal heart tone. I guessed that she might be carrying mostly slugs. The snake was Borba and this is what I found checking on her tonight.
>>
>>
>>Lots of slugs with two stillborn on the left side of the PIC. The stillborns were in the pile with everything else but I moved them to see if there was any sign of life. One of the healthy babies is crawling in the pile of slugs and another healthy one is still inside the membrane with just the forward part of it's body out. That snake was breathing but was lethargic and came around with some prodding. In the past I have tried unsuccessfully to revive stillborns many times. Nothing, including external cardiac compressions, drugs and rescue breathing has worked.
>>
>>
>>At least there were the cute healthy babies.
>>
>>
>>Borba did the typical BRB post partum bulldozer thing through everything like she was looking for something.
>>
>>
>>
>>Whats this she found? One of the stillborns. In hundreds of litters of baby snakes this is the first I have ever seen this. She had nosed one of the live babies but as soon as it moved she left it alone. They often eat slugs.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>This litter sucks big time but as in all failures there are small lessons to be learned.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

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