Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I went to a flee market today at a drive in by my house. Now there is a guy sometimes there that sells the tiny 1 inch turtles which is illegal in Pa. Well me and my fiance went today and couldn't believe it he was not only selling the turtles he was selling baby american alligators to anyone who wanted one. He was telling people that they don't bite and don't get very big it made me so mad. He was selling them to anyone. He was also selling a setup kit which was a ten gallon tank some gravel an a turtle dock. It is people like this that make proper reptile owners have such problems with people. I mean selling gators is not illegal in pa but the turtles definately is so I called local SPCA investigators and they were going down and called the state police barraks. I even saw one get sold to a parent for their like 13 year old kid. It made me so mad to see people being so irresponsible I even told the parent the facts and they blew me off like I was an idiot. Some people are so irresponsible.
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, leo)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow)
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Australian Shepheard (layla)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.0 Ferret (jordan)
0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
0.0.1 Rainbow Ameive (jack)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Long Tail Grass Lizard
Lots Of Fish

Unfortunately, this is all too common in just about anywhere they are legal to sell and own. Yes, upon trying to educate people about them, if you don't approach them as a zoological professional and such, they do just that...blow you off as you're nothing. They tend to regard the seller as the "professional" even if he's truly an imbecile. Oh well, just do what you can, when you can.

chris

>>I went to a flee market today at a drive in by my house. Now there is a guy sometimes there that sells the tiny 1 inch turtles which is illegal in Pa. Well me and my fiance went today and couldn't believe it he was not only selling the turtles he was selling baby american alligators to anyone who wanted one. He was telling people that they don't bite and don't get very big it made me so mad. He was selling them to anyone. He was also selling a setup kit which was a ten gallon tank some gravel an a turtle dock. It is people like this that make proper reptile owners have such problems with people. I mean selling gators is not illegal in pa but the turtles definately is so I called local SPCA investigators and they were going down and called the state police barraks. I even saw one get sold to a parent for their like 13 year old kid. It made me so mad to see people being so irresponsible I even told the parent the facts and they blew me off like I was an idiot. Some people are so irresponsible.
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>>Tom
>>1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, leo)
>>0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
>>0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
>>0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
>>0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
>>0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
>>1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow)
>>0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
>>1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
>>0.1.0 Australian Shepheard (layla)
>>2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
>>0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
>>0.1.0 Ferret (jordan)
>>0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
>>0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
>>0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
>>0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
>>0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
>>0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
>>0.0.1 Rainbow Ameive (jack)
>>0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
>>0.0.3 Green Anoles
>>1.0.0 Bahama Anole
>>0.0.1 Long Tail Grass Lizard
>>Lots Of Fish
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My Website
www.herpfanatic.com

In my experience, I have found it effective to ask questions of the seller and potential owner then counter with fact. There was a pet store that carried aligator hatchlings in my area and I found this tactict to work well. I debated with an employee there who had a small crowd of potential buyers he was "educating regarding the husbandry of a pet as docile and trainable as a dog". Following the discussion, I received more questions than the pet store guy and no one in the group purchased an aligator that "doesn't get any larger than the enclosure you keep it in" *rolls eyes* that day. A good question to ask is "where did you hear that?" or "From what study?" or "and your sources for your information are?" A good suggestion to a potential buyer is "I would recomend to research this before you make this decision, here are some good places to start" =)

Andrew,

I agree completely. Putting the potential seller in a position to defend his arguments is an excellent way to dispel the myths that they spread in order to make a sell. I've done this exact thing on several occasions at herp shows here. It's truly effective.

Chris

>>In my experience, I have found it effective to ask questions of the seller and potential owner then counter with fact. There was a pet store that carried aligator hatchlings in my area and I found this tactict to work well. I debated with an employee there who had a small crowd of potential buyers he was "educating regarding the husbandry of a pet as docile and trainable as a dog". Following the discussion, I received more questions than the pet store guy and no one in the group purchased an aligator that "doesn't get any larger than the enclosure you keep it in" *rolls eyes* that day. A good question to ask is "where did you hear that?" or "From what study?" or "and your sources for your information are?" A good suggestion to a potential buyer is "I would recomend to research this before you make this decision, here are some good places to start" =)
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My Website
www.herpfanatic.com

I tried something like that but he just ignored me and most people looked at me like I was lieing people are seriously dumb what person does not know what a adult aligator looks like lol....
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, leo)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow)
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Australian Shepheard (layla)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.0 Ferret (jordan)
0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
0.0.1 Rainbow Ameive (jack)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Long Tail Grass Lizard
Lots Of Fish

Often-times, it's all in the approach. Professionalism usually wins all..in most cases. There are cases where no matter what you say, unless you're a well known herpetologist or expert in the field, where you will be completely ignored. It happens. However, keeping professionalism and most importantly...asking ALL THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, are what usually wins. Forcing someone to defend their statements and then successfully arguing them at that moment is generally the best approach. Just don't get cocky or arrogant as this usually turns people in the opposite direction. Now, if this person is considerably older than you, often people associate age with experience and knowledge. While there is certainly some merit to that line of thinking, this isn't always the case. I'm not saying to ignore those older and more experienced than you, as most often than not...you will certainly learn something. However, it doesn't take much in order to figure out who's truly a moron and who isn't.

Chris

>>I tried something like that but he just ignored me and most people looked at me like I was lieing people are seriously dumb what person does not know what a adult aligator looks like lol....
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>>Tom
>>1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, leo)
>>0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
>>0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
>>0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
>>0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
>>0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
>>1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow)
>>0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
>>1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
>>0.1.0 Australian Shepheard (layla)
>>2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
>>0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
>>0.1.0 Ferret (jordan)
>>0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
>>0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
>>0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
>>0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
>>0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
>>0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
>>0.0.1 Rainbow Ameive (jack)
>>0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
>>0.0.3 Green Anoles
>>1.0.0 Bahama Anole
>>0.0.1 Long Tail Grass Lizard
>>Lots Of Fish
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My Website
www.herpfanatic.com

I used to live in PA, but now live in SC. We have a big flea market here and there are people that sell hatchling turtles. American alligators are illegal here, so instead, caiman are sold. Then again, so are hatchling turtles. Most people sell it under the context of "buy a kit, get a free turtle". I had a previous employer that sold baby turtles without any kit. When I asked him why, he told me that the fine does not outweigh the potential profit he makes; so until he gets fined a few times, he would keep on selling them. The people selling these animals almost always neglect to mention that the turtle does grow up and does the caiman. They do not stay cute and little forever. And your right; when you do try to provide someone with correct information, they look at you like your clueless. I shave my head because people like that make me want to pull my hair out. I guess it doesn't matter where you live, stupidity breeds and thrives everywhere.
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2:3:5 Cornsnake
2:2:0 Red-tailed rat snake
2:2:0 Tiger rat snake
1:1:0 Carpet python
1:1:0 Mangrove snake
1:1:0 Southern copper head
1:1:0 Giant hog nose
1:1:0 Taiwan Beauty
0:2:0 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1:0:0 Giant bird snake
1:0:0 Yellow anaconda
1:0:0 Scrub python
1:0:0 Green tree python
1:0:0 Uni-colored cribo
1:0:0 Albino checkered garter
0:1:0 Pueblan milk snake
0:1:0 Dusky pygmy rattler
0:1:0 Twig mimic snake

1:2:9 Bearded dragon
0:0:2 Nile monitor
2:3:0 Leopard Gecko
1:2:0 Green iguana
1:1:0 Red iguana
1:1:0 Blue tongue skink

5:5:0 Eastern box turtle
1:2:0 Red eared slider
1:1:0 Map turtle
1:0:0 Painted turtle
0:0:1 Sulcata

0:0:1 Dwarf caiman

0:2:0 White-spotted bamboo shark
0:0:2 Saber tusk barracuda
0:0:1 Tiger shovel nose catfish

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