Reptile & Amphibian Forums

He was at the vet last week because of a swelling on the top of his head.
This is him when I took him to the vet. You can see there is a bump so I brought him in to get checked. That was on 8/30/08

They did a needle biopsy and the fluid was more like a mucus so they were not sure if it was really an abcess. They did a cytology and aerobic culture.
The reults came back on 9/3/08.

Cytology results of the 5 slides were:

Microscopic Description: Cellularity was moderately high with a small amount of blood. Cells were a mixture of heterophils, lymphocytes and azurophils. Mixed bacteria were observed. No cellular atypia suggestive of neoplasia was evident.

Cytological Interpretation: Septic inflamation.

Comments: Culture results will be helpful to determine appropriate antibiotic therapy.

The culture results showed 3 gram negative rods and 3 aeromomas species.

Treatment was prescribed as 0.08 ml of Fortaz injected IM every 3 days for a total of 10 injections.

Now for the OMG part. Here he is today on 9/8/08.

I just got back from the vet again. They have no idea what is going on now since he has blown up so much in such a short amount of time. He has also lost 50 grams in the past week and his skin is flaking.
I have been told by the vet to contact Dr. Mayer at Tufts University. No one else in the state would be able to help at this point. A highly skilled specialist is now needed and the Fortaz may be ineffective.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO HIM?!

About 10 years ago I had a burmese python male lymphnodies on the one side blow up like that. It started under his chin, crossed over underneath his head and went about 4 inches down his one side. I treated the infection with trimethaprim sulfa (spelling???) and that cleared it up.

Fortaz is a very good drug and I would think that would clear things up in your case. If not try the other drug.

Good luck,
Corey

hope it starts to help. If not, I will try the other med and try to get to a specialist. The only drawback is I need to go out of state to find a specialist. The closest is at Tufts and that is still a few states away.

Poor guy.

THIS VET IS THE BEST OF BEST
http://www.seavs.com/

that vet is even farther than the one at Tufts.
That one would be an overnight road trip instead of a long day trip.

np

Wouldn't overnighting him in this condition be dangerous? I wouldn't think he is in any condition to go thru that.

located at this website

I sent him an email with the results of the lab work and some photos along with the details of what has been going on since 8/30 asking for his help. I am hoping to hear back soon.

i've shipped to him with great results. he'll ship the snake back to you after treatment.

He really needs surgery... and it has gotten very large and involved, so we would be concerned with the infection getting into the bone/blood stream at this point. (reptile pus is very caseous and needs to be removed surgically, not drained, every time) If he is still strong, has good muscular tone, the best bet would be to fed ex him down here for treatment. Or, if you’d prefer, I could set up a phone consult with Dr Stahl... maybe even have him talk to your vet to instruct them on what to do. He needs to be started on antibiotics, ceftazadime and Baytril every 3 days and meloxicam for pain/inflammation. you can fax the records to us at 703-281-3730 for now, that way they are here no matter what you decide as far as Dr Stahls involvement. Let me know, Jen

What substrate are you keeping him on? I had an animal do something similar, and someone told me it was an allergy... So i took him off aspen and he was fine. I had another snake this year do the same thing and i fixed it the same way... Im just going off the pics not the vet report.
-----
Thanks
Jon Dvoretz
Next World Exotics
www.nextworldexotics.com

The Hunters Guide to the Morphs
www.nextworldexotics.com/hg.htm

It was cypress. Now it's newspaper.

Can a snake be allergic to the meds your giving it??? He may be having an allergic reaction and that caused the major swelling.??

Alan

I don't know. He may be. I still think it needs to be drained though.

I can't believe how bad he looks and how fast this progressed.
Here he is about a month and a half ago.

The exact thing happened to me. I attributed it to some bedding getting caught during feeding causing an infection. Who knows though.

I took him to the vet and like most vets in my area he had no idea and prescribed something that didn't work. So I did exactly what your thinking. I drained it. I took a syringe and punctured the "bubble" Puss came out and the swelling went down to almost normal. After a week he was back to 100% normal and is still in my collection.

Oh, I of course kept him away from my other snakes when it started to happen and for about 3 months after. Just in case.

Let me see if I can find a picture.

Just my opinion and from my own experience. Not a Vet.

Holy mackerel..

I wonder if it was a capsulated abscess and during the needle aspiration the capsule was punctured and allowed the infection to spread? Such a thing can happen in mammals, not sure if reptile abscesses behave the same. My other thought would be a reaction to the medication, but that would most likely be at the site of injection. Unless this is more of an anaphylactic reaction.. Can he still breathe normally without opening his mouth?

HI Sp,

I gotta go with what tammilynne said the needle biopsy probably realeased the infection in to the surrounding tissues.

I am surprised that the fortaz did not work. I would definately be hitting it with other ATBs and go for the synergistic effects. Might try something more aggressive like Amikacin Sulfate or Kanamycin JUST make sure the vet knows how to properly hydrate the animals.

Have you looked at the Merck Vet manual online. They outline some great info on the treatment of infections in reptiles. GREAT RESOURCE!! I'd give you the link but it is forbidden. Next post will be a copy and paste of the info on the website. Hopefully it will be readable

God Bless, Lee Van Hyfte

Ampicillin All but tortoise 3-6 mg/kg, sid-bid Anaerobic infections or in combination with aminoglycosides

Tortoise 50 mg/kg, IM, bid
Amikacin Alligator 2.25 mg/kg, IM, every 72 hr Potentially nephrotoxic Renal insufficiency, dehydration
Tortoise 5 mg/kg, IM, every 48 hr
Snake 5 mg/kg, IM, first dose, then 2.5 mg/kg every 72 hr
Lizard 5 mg/kg, IM, every 24-72 hr
Carbenicillin Snake 400 mg/kg, IM, sid Painful injection Small muscle mass
Tortoise 400 mg/kg, IM, every 48 hr
Lizard 400 mg/kg, IM, SC, every 48 hr
Ceftazidime Snake 20 mg/kg, IM, SC, every 72 hr Good for Pseudomonas
Cephazolin All 20 mg/kg, IM, SC, sid
Chloramphenicol Snake 50 mg/kg, SC, every 12-72 hr (species dependent) Bone marrow suppression in water snakes
Ciprofloxacin Snake 10 mg/kg, PO, every 48-72 hr Must be mixed with distilled water
Doxycycline Tortoise 50 mg/kg, loading dose, then 25 mg/kg, IM, every 72 hr Painful injection
All 5-10 mg/kg, PO, sid as needed
Enrofloxacin All 5-10 mg/kg, PO, every 24-48 hr Tissue necrosis common at IM injections; skin discoloration and necrosis at SC sites
Box turtle 5 mg/kg, IM, every 72 hr Painful Small tissue mass may cause necrosis
HerrmannÕs tortoise 10 mg/kg, IM, sid Painful
Green iguana 5 mg/kg, PO, IM, every 24-48 hr Painful
Gopher tortoise 5 mg/kg, IM, every 24-48 hr Painful
Star tortoise 5 mg/kg, IM, sid-bid Painful
Monitor 10 mg/kg, IM, every 5 days Painful
Snake 11 mg/kg, IM every 48 hr
Ketoconazole Tortoise 15-30 mg/kg, PO, sid Potentially hepatotoxic Hepatic disease
Metronidazole Iguana 20 mg/kg, PO, every 24-48 hr Use every 24 hr for resistant anaerobes

Snake 20 mg/kg, PO, every 48 hr
Nystatin Snake 100,000 IU/kg, sid Yeast enteritis
Oxytetracycline Tortoise 5-10 mg/kg, IM, sid Mycoplasma in tortoises
Alligator 10 mg/kg, PO, sid
Crocodile 10 mg/kg, IM, every 7 days Mycoplasmosis
Piperacillin All 50-200 mg/kg, IM, every 24-48 hr Useful to add to aminoglycoside Fluid support
Tetracycline All 10 mg/kg, PO, sid Seldom used
Ticarcillin All 50-100 mg/kg, sid Fluid support
Trimethoprim All 30 mg/kg, every 48 hr Need proper hydration Dehydration
Tylosin All 5 mg/kg, sid for 10-60 days Mycoplasmosis