Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is Eagle's Nest the same as Langtry?

~Tony
-----
You can never have only one snake!

Langtry is described as the area around and including the city of Langtry. Known for Judge Roy Bean and Lilly Langtry.

The area is sub-divided into these areas.

East Langtry, Langtry (loop), Pandale Dirt, West Langtry.
Some of us go even further by keeping track of which cut (mile marker) and so forth.

Eagles Nest is one of the first localities just East of Langtry. It is one of the locations to have produced an Alterna morph which is very rare in Langtry. You need to see it in the day to really appreciate it. I don't know whether to describe it as a rock bowl or what but it is neat.

I hope this helps. You don't see too many animals or pictures of animals off those cuts. Most seem to stay west since the belief is that the animals are more common in the western parts.

I have observed alterna both west and east of town. I have never observed one on the loop (which I would love to do some day). The pandale paved road is just too damn bumpy... yep, I am a wimp. I like the clean paved roads!

Best Wishes,

SXO792

Hey thanks for the great insight Steve!

You made my life a whole lot easier as I have been trying to look up some information on it for quite a while myself.

I would love to see or visit some of the areas that alternas live! It sounds very interesting! I had a feeling that cut was pretty rare as I have only heard it very few times, west langtry being heard more often.

I guess people who were able to get some alternas from that cut have something special...=)

~Tony
-----
You can never have only one snake!

Again it is tough to describe... As you leave Langtry traveling east it is right outside of town. I bet there are some pics on the alterna page.

http://www.kingsnake.com/alterna/index.html

Check out the pics...

You don't see many animals from there. Dan Johnson had an awesome alterna morph from that spot back in the day. I don't know whatever happened to them.

Best Wishes,

Steven Owens

Dudes,

The name is actually Eagle Nest Canyon. Not Eagle's Nest Canyon or Eagles Nest Canyon. It is singular not plural.

Joe also has it mis-spelled on the Alterna Page.

Correct me if I am wrong but it is the first set of cuts you come to heading east from the east entrance to loop 25. There are a pair of cuts, the canyon and then another pair of cuts. If I am remembering correctly. It has been a few years since I have been there. Where does the Langtry town limits begin? As soon as you turn on loop 25? It may not be in Langtry proper but it is definitely the Langtry area. And, yes, east of Langtry as Steve said.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

>>Joe also has it mis-spelled on the Alterna Page.

Can you read? Apparently not. Map by Jeff B. Text by Jeff B. You are wrong yet again, just as in every other OPINION you offer and misrepresent as fact.
-----
Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Joe,

Well excuse me. You are correct, it was written by Jeff Barringer. However, your name is at the bottom of the Alterna Page. You are responsible for it. It is just a little mis-spelling. I thought you would want to correct it. What's with the attitude?

Welkerii

You reap what you sow. When your attitude and comments are contentious you can respect the same in return.

.

Damon,

Well they weren't so what's the excuse? Just anything to slam me I know. Thanks!

Welkeri

They weren't snippy? You've come to a forum frequented by substantial contingent of people with whom you've had a bone to pick these last few years and in your handful of posts have done nothing constructive. You just made a post for the sole purpose of publicly criticizing a clerical error that wasn't even made by the person you claimed responsible and wonder why people get turned off? You wonder why the world seems like it's out to get you, but never stop and think that you might be better served if you weren't out to get the world.

Damon,

As usual you are wrong. I have heard people mis-pronouncing Eagle Nest for years. I try to get things right so I posted the correction. I went to the Alterna Page as Owens suggested and found it was mis-spelled there. Joe has been taking care of the Alterna Page for awile now. It is his responsibilty, apparently. So I laid the blame with him. I did not say anything "snippy" just noted the error. The original error was Jeff's but Joe is currently responsible for it now.

What you are trying to do is twist my post into something that it is not. You guys can't stand it when I correct you.

Correcting a mis-pronounced and mis-spelled locality is constructive. Don't you like to get things correct? Having mis-information on the Alterna Page especially about a locality seems to be pretty important to many of you I would think. I would think that you guys would appreciate having correct information but apparently you are shooting the messenger.

I also did not post to show Joe and Jeff's error. I already wrote the post when I decided to check the Alterna Page. So, again, you are wrong. The original posters were incorrect AND the Alterna Page was incorrect.

I don't think the world is out to get me. I think that many follow the leader w/o checking things out for themselves. I think many are warped by an animal rights agenda. I think many are hypocritical and like to brown-nose, justify and minimize. And there are many people who think like me. They just don't waste their time arguing with you.

Welkerii

>>Damon,
>>
>>As usual you are wrong. >>

>>Welkerii

Maybe if you didn't have this attitude towards everyone you'd get a better response to your posts. I'm sure your grammar and knowledge is unsurpassed by everyone who posts here but it's no reason to pick on us less fortunate. LOL
-----
Steve W.

Steve,

You guys give me attitude first. Then I respond. You guys should call yourselves the-do-no-wrong group.

Welkerii

>>Steve,
>>
>>You guys give me attitude first. Then I respond. You guys should call yourselves the-do-no-wrong group.
>>
>>Welkerii

Correcting grammar and Jeff's site is just nitpicking and childish. If you have a problem with Jeff or Joe thats your problem. Just remember that before Jeff started this site herps were virtually non-existant on the internet as far as forums and classifieds and to use his site to slam him is bs. Your agenda is different than most people's here and thats fine. But why should everyone change just for you? You collect for profit and most of us only take what we intend to use for breeding stock. Collecting isn't about profit for me. It's about enjoying the region with the possibility of finding a keeper animal. You can continue to do what you do and as long as it's within the law you can do it no matter how unethical it may be. If you don't like the current laws or parts of it then you need to get together with your fellow commercial collectors and change it to suite your needs. Until then we have our views and you have yours.
-----
Steve W.

Steve,

You are way off base and clutching for straws. It was just a correction.

I am slamming Jeff? You are ridiculous man.

Jeff was the first. Good for him. He jumped on it. Smart move. What is your point? Am I the only one who sees this guy kissing booty?

I also collect for breeding stock. You don't know anything about me so quit speculating. It is not unethical, Steve. You are a left winger aren't you? If you were to get bit by a venomous snake there is a possibility that the anti-venom you get came from a wild caught snake I collected and sold. There is nothing unethical about that.

My fellow commercial collectors? Who are they? What about the commercial buyers? You do not have an open mind. You are blinded by AR agenda. There is no point debating with you.

Welkerii

>>Steve,
>>
>>>>
>>Jeff was the first. Good for him. He jumped on it. Smart move. What is your point? Am I the only one who sees this guy kissing booty?
>>

I've known Jeff a long time. Thats all. he's a good guy all around. Problem with that?
>> You are a left winger aren't you?

You couldn't be further from the truth, but then again you think you know it all.

>>If you were to get bit by a venomous snake there is a possibility that the anti-venom you get came from a wild caught snake I collected and sold. There is nothing unethical about that.
>>

Are you only collecting hots for that purpose? Or are you harvesting them for retail sale?

>>My fellow commercial collectors? Who are they? What about the commercial buyers? You do not have an open mind. You are blinded by AR agenda. There is no point debating with you.
>>
>>Welkerii

I don't know who the other commercial collectors are and maybe you don't either or else you wouldn't need us to back you on your agenda. Why not find out where the commercial base is located and ask them to support you? Why try and convert us? Maybe it's because you're the minority here. Also, I don't think I know it all but what I do know is that if your veiws aren't accepted here you throw a hissy fit. If you put as much effort into finding a real job you'd probably never need to worry about commercial collecting again.

-----
Steve W.

Steve,

You don't see the big picture. You are closed minded. You are trying to stir up trouble by inventing some problem I have with Jeff. Commercial sale is legal at the moment and it helps your good buddy Jeff pay his bills. I have had many "real" jobs. This job is a "real" job. Don't you mean traditional job? It is not your business what I do. I can post anywhere I like.

Welkerii

>>Steve,
>>
>>You don't see the big picture. You are closed minded. You are trying to stir up trouble by inventing some problem I have with Jeff. Commercial sale is legal at the moment and it helps your good buddy Jeff pay his bills. I have had many "real" jobs. This job is a "real" job. Don't you mean traditional job? It is not your business what I do. I can post anywhere I like.
>>
>>Welkerii

I don't care at all if you post. As a matter of fact it's entertaining to see you pleading for everyone's help. But you should still get a real job. Hopefully you pay taxes and are honest enough to claim every dollar you make raping the environment. Actually Jeff can ban you from this site anytime he'd like because your freedom of speech rights don't apply here. It's a privately owned site. LOL
-----
Steve W.

Steve,

You are not a nice person are you? I am not pleading for anyones help LOL! I am trying to educate folks. I also feel the need to post when something I have said before comes to fruition. A little rub your nose in it after they way I have been treated. I am sure you can understand that. Well, maybe not. I didn't have to pay taxes last year because my business took a loss but I did claim every dollar I earned providing animals to reaserchers and hobbyists. So I guess my business is not as lucrative as you mistakenly thought? Yes, Jeff could ban me. I know that smart guy! I don't have a beef with Jeff. Another waste of time arguing with a closed minded person who assumes a lot.

Welkerii

I did pay state sales tax.

Welkerii

>>I did pay state sales tax.
>>
>>Welkerii

Good boy!!!!
-----
Steve W.

>>Steve,
>>
>>You are not a nice person are you? I am not pleading for anyones help LOL! I am trying to educate folks. I also feel the need to post when something I have said before comes to fruition. A little rub your nose in it after they way I have been treated. I am sure you can understand that. Well, maybe not. I didn't have to pay taxes last year because my business took a loss but I did claim every dollar I earned providing animals to reaserchers and hobbyists. So I guess my business is not as lucrative as you mistakenly thought? Yes, Jeff could ban me. I know that smart guy! I don't have a beef with Jeff. Another waste of time arguing with a closed minded person who assumes a lot.
>>
>>Welkerii

Lots of people here know me and can tell you that I'm a helluva guy. So saying I'm not a nice guy is pretty comical. But thats not a concern. I don't need you to educate me as I've had plenty of schooling in my life. If you are saying that you'd like to offer your opinion then thats more than acceptable and it's welcomed. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just going on things you post over time and it seems like your main complaint with the current laws are with commercial collecting. Myself and most of us here don't support it 100% because the truth of the matter is it needs strict guidlines. Personally, I'm not in favor of the regulations that effect the recreational herpers either. After twenty some years of making the trip to w.texas I chose not to go this year. I make the trip every year and coming home empty handed never put a damper on the fun we have and people we meet. Lets just agree to disagree with what our goals are when we drove the roads and walked the cuts all these years.
-----
Steve W.

Steve,

That's fine. Although I would like to make a clarification based on this statement you made, "Lets just agree to disagree with what our goals are when we drove the roads and walked the cuts all these years."

Just for the record:

Some trips I only collected for personal breeding stock.

Some trips I collected for personal breeding stock and for researchers.

Some trips I collected for personal breeding stock, researchers and for commercial sale.

And one trip I didn't collect anything.

Also you mentioned before that you just love being out here and experiencing west Texas and it didn’t matter if you caught a keeper or not. Well, me too. I have told my wife that I want my ashes scattered at the Pecos High Bridge. I want this entire area protected from development. I, too, love west Texas.

Welkerii

Why do you, Welkeri? Why not post an alterna or offer some truly amazing story from your collecting past?
-----
Todd Hughes

Todd,

This must be the sane Todd. I will consider posting the info on my 5 alterna night when I get a chance. Or some other story.

Welkerii

Nope, crazy Todd who wishes you would just go away quietly, but it is a free country. I see nothing even remotely interesting in anything you have to say here or elsewhere. You burned that bridge with me a long time ago. It took this thread to remind myself of why I should stick to my instincts about people, I don't know why I considered giving you the benefit of the doubt. I hope I didn't misspell any words for you and I hope to never meet you. No threat, I just don't ever want to meet you. I think you, as a person, lack....a friendly continence, someone whom with I could never share a type of camaraderie. I wish you the best in your endeavors but I wish you would endeavor elsewhere.

-----
Todd Hughes

Todd,

Well, I am not going anywhere so I guess you will have to deal with it. It was not my intention to make an enemy out of you but it sounds like you have a low threshold for a heated debate. And the issues we face are big, important and it is going to keep coming as long as there are two or more sides. We are fighting among ourselves, we are fighting against the AR influenced agenda and then the politicans. This "fight" is far from over. It is very complicated and there are multitude of opinions.

You are defintely free to have these opinions and we all can't like each other. Did you like everyone in your school? On your block? Me either.

To me this is business, my rights, my freedoms and about what is correct, realistic and fair. I didn't not come on here to make friends although I am not opposed to that. And I have made some because of my posts. I came here to work on fighting against AR agenda and politicians.

Welkerii

>>Todd,
>>
>>You are defintely free to have these opinions and we all can't like each other. Did you like everyone in your school? On your block? Me either.
>>
>>>>
>>Welkerii

It's me neither. Sorry but you asked for it. lol
-----
Steve W.

Steve,

I stand corrected.

Welkerii

Mike, I speak only for myself, and, although sometimes this particular forum extends into political talks, I come here to learn and talk about experiences with gray banded king snakes. That is why the forums have been sub-divided into interest groups. There are way more forums on which political agendas are/can/should be pushed. I know you know of many. I am sorry, but when people are on here, especially at hatching time, the discussions tend to focus on the care and breeding of the gray banded king snake. I personally don't care if Eagle Nest canyon was misspelled, I only come here to discuss the the care and breeding of gray banded king snakes, and to post pictures of them and see others' collections. I feel as though something good is being trodden under here. I am happy that you have a voice and know how to use it. I just think that the agenda is not well served on this forum. I too have rights. I have the necessary permits and licenses to enjoy that which is legal to enjoy, which I will continue to do. I think you know well enough where I stand on the issues at hand, and how, where, and when I will fight, and with whom, so please don't hand me any BS about "we" have a fight on our hands and "we" need to stick together or the whole industry will go down the tubes. It is not an industry for me. It is a hobby and this kind of BS here on a hobbyist forum turns my stomach. If you have stories, or pics, or info that is relevant to the topic at hand, that's great! But since I am not a moderator here it is all mute. I believe your post above should be moved to the other sub forum, as it is not relevant here. No where in the post is there anything about gray banded king snakes in any form. To keep this on topic, do you have any gray banded king snakes that you could show pics of? If you found 5 in one night, back when it was legal to collect from the row, I know I would have one in my collection!
-----
Todd Hughes

You know, I tend to agree with you that some sustainable harvest is needed and does not have a significant impact on populations, but then you go and post something like this, like your looking for trouble from this crowd. Not a good way to win support.
-----
South Texas Herps

Mike,

What are you talking about? I post a correction and a clarification and I am the bad guy? Please, don't give me that BS.

Welkerii

You may not have intended it that way, but your tone conveyed a certain snippyness. Considering the long-standing disagreements you've voiced with many of those here can you blame them for making the inference?

Damon,

There was nothing what so ever "snippy" about what I said. I just found an error the great one missed. You guys just can't handle it.

Welkerii

>>Damon,
>>
>> I just found an error the great one missed.

Mike,
There are other errors on that page as well. As a matter of fact there was one right next to Eagle Nest, --> Oshman's. The great one (your words) has fixed those two errors. No more nit picking, but if you want to edit the whole page, do that and send me the entire edit if you are capable.

As for your other comments, These folks think for themselves. Many have varying beliefs about what is right, moral, and ethical. I'm not trying to change their mind, merely leading the folks who agree with what we are doing.

I did get to read your post below before it got pulled, aside from all the usual drivel you supplied which I will ignore, I will address how much pull (The great one) has. So far with the exception of the road cruising ban (which we do not agree with) and a few animals on the black list that should be moved to the white list, they have addressed or are going to address EVERY SINGLE point I was critical of.

They listen to everything I say, and I'm far from done. After my mother's funeral service I've added some more things to my agenda, and I think you are going to like them very much.

SINCERELY
The great one (again, your words)

PS none of my buddies here have any delusions about me. They know I put my pants on one leg at time just like them. Most of them know I'm far from perfect, but they also know that I am determined, ferocious, and can accomplish anything I put my mind to. Not only that, I know HOW to get it done. Thanks for the motivation.
-----
Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Joe,

I am sincerely sorry to hear about your mom.

Well, I am glad that you are making head way on the issues we agree about. I think we should abolish the entire "Black List". It doesn't make any sense. We already have a list it is called the Endangered and Threatened List. I wish I lived closer to the action in Austin so I could do more. I hope that you consider all the stakeholders in your work.

As far as the corrections that was the only one that I have heard about for years. Some of the other folks who are on here would probably be better suited to editing those pages.

Wekerii

I mis-spelled my own name LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a Freudian slip.

That's because I have to get to work. I have a large shipment to get out and MS classes have started.

Welkerii

True dat! Mike you were owned a long time ago, why troll here? Wouldn't a better use of your time be elsewhere, or do you feel a need to connect at some other level than what you previously attempted. Now that Joe has let you in on a personal issue, why not can it for now? Bad form to continue this BS, old chap!
-----
Todd Hughes

Todd,

What are you talking about? I was owned along time ago? What does that mean? What you fail to realize is that this is a free country, or at least it use to be, and I should be able to excercise my right to free speech.

As has been said before I was not trying to start anything with anybody. I was just making a correction. Joe's personal situation has nothing to do with it. And I can troll anywhere I want.

It is not "bad form" to stand up for my beliefs and to keep trying to educate folks. Or to keep showing when I am correct.

True dat, homie

Welkerii

One of the least productive things anybody can do with their day is argue on the internet. In the end everybody is picking at smaller and smaller imperfections about anything they can find, the point or purpose no longer matter.

I mean would you have this same "debate" standing up in front of a crowd of your peers?

Just a little food for thought

Lance
-----
___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

Well put, Lance. Good for you. The sad thing is, this is one of the longest threads we've had on this forum for awhile and it all started because someone pointed out that a word was misspelled!! Geez. BA