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Alterna Hatch Rate: The Good, The Bad,

gmerker Sep 09, 2008 11:44 AM

The Ugly........

I would like to report my breeding successes and failures with Lampropeltis alterna for the past year……

I don’t know what it is about Gray-banded Kingsnakes, but over the past thirty years, I have experienced tons of infertile eggs, eggs going full term and then babies dying full term in the shell, and horribly kinked babies hatching. The worst – having perfect full term babies die in the shell AND in the same clutch, having the horribly kinked babies hatch and emerge from the shell (that’s happened on several occasions as well).

A number of years ago, I started using a RepCal® and or Minerall® product in an effort to increase my egg hatch…. This was in part, due to a conversation with Dale DeNardo who told me kinked baby snakes often indicates a calcium deficiency…Dale is a Veterinarian who has done a lot of work with reptiles. I started using a calcium product that fall and the following spring and my productivity increased remarkably….What I did not take note of was the presence or absence of Vitamin D-3 in the product I was using….

To help diminish the number of babies dying full-term in the shell, Norm Nunley suggested I try placing a damp paper towel on top of the eggs one to two weeks before they were due to hatch. The idea was that the paper towel would “soften” the egg shell so that the neonate could easily cut through the shell and exit the egg. This strategy helped our hatch rate and has been implemented by us with all clutches of Gray-banded Kingsnake eggs.

Fast forward a few years….to this forum….where I posted an inquiry regarding the use of lizards for increasing L. alterna egg fertility and hatch rates. That started a great discussion. Joe Forks and Ron Tremper suggested that I try a liquid form of Vitamin D-3….one that was available in the states and in Europe….Both told me they had much better hatch rates after using this vitamin.

So, I started to put two drops monthly on the rump of feeder mice(one drop every other week) and offering it to my snakes. I did not want to use too much because Vitamin D-3 is fat-soluble and is stored in the fat bodies of snakes; excesses are harder to void than water-soluble vitamins such as Vitamin C. My egg production increased remarkably in 2007 BUT due to an incubator malfunction, all the eggs reached excessive temperatures and died.

2008 was a different story…

THE GOOD……

In total, seven females produced eggs that hatched. My colony has 15 females, but some I purposefully did not breed for several reasons (mainly not having a locality-matched male)….long story short, I bred 11 females total this year….

This Gray-banded Kingsnake was found in 2002 as a young adult. In the eight ensuing breeding seasons, not once did she produce an egg that hatched….this year six out of seven hatched:

Some of the more dramatic success stories: I had eggs produced from females captured as adults or young adults in 1992; 1993; and 1995….In fact, two of these three females have not produced clutches of eggs in six and eight years….

My 1992 female, also captured as an adult, had nine eggs – only four of these hatched. The other five eggs during various stages of development.

Another female was captured gravid in 1993. She produced several clutches of eggs in the 1990’s and stopped laying fertile eggs in 2000. She is an old animal, exhibiting the symptoms of old age (including cloudy eyes). She was given the Vitamin D-3 supplement for the past year. This year, she laid 8 eggs…all 8 eggs hatched.

The second female, captured as a young adult in 1995 consistently laid eggs until 2002. She was also provided with the supplement and this year produced seven eggs. Four of the eggs hatched into huge adults. The other three eggs proved to be infertile, BUT went full term without exhibiting any of symptoms of infertile eggs. That is, they looked like a normal fertile egg, but never hatched. When I candled the eggs at term, the eggs were void. Upon opening the egg, they were filled with cloudy fluid with absolutely no development having occurred.

This is the male bred to the above two females…he too was supplemented with Vitamin D-3 twice monthly:

My 1992 female, also captured as an adult, had nine eggs – only four of these hatched. The other five eggs during various stages of development.

More good – none of my hatchlings had trouble hatching…they all absorbed their umbilical cords. I had no animals dying full term in the shell….not one……

Most looked healthy and fat like these two:

One thing I look for is the number of slits a baby Gray-banded Kingsnake makes during hatching. I think it is a good indication to the healthiness of the baby if there are a lot of slits in an egg before emerging.

Here is an image of a clutch of eggs from a wild-caught snake:

Note the number of slits….none of these were made by me…all were made by the snake.

This year, most of my snake eggs hatched with a good number of slits like this:

I noted in years past that clutches that had snakes making only one slit usually had some snakes that did not emerge successfully from the shell….

THE BAD………

My two adult Christmas Mountain female L. alterna produced two what appeared to be fertile clutches. Unfortunately, only one hatched into a full term healthy baby. And that was out of six eggs total (three from each female). The encouraging news is that one female was very young and this was her first clutch; and the other female was much older (caught in 1999). In fact, the latter female has not produced any eggs (fertile or infertile) in five years.

I also did not produce fertile eggs in the following animals (all of which were provided with Vitamin D-3): Palma Draw; Lozier Canyon, Hueco Mountain, third Christmas Mountain, and captive-bred Langtry…..the Hueco Mountain breeding, or lack thereof, was particularly disheartening….I went all out on both adults….Vitamin D-3 plus several lizards (frozen then thawed) pre brumation and post brumation. The female indeed bred with the male several times (and the sperm was viable as per microscope check)….She developed three eggs, went through a pre-egg laying shed, and then reabsorbed the eggs….go figure.

THE UGLY……..

Although I did not have any Gray-banded Kingsnakes die full term in the shell and had all the babies that hatched absorb their umbilical cords 100%, I still managed to produce three animals from two clutches that looked like this:


Despite being kinked, the animals were very strong and absorbed in most of their yolk sacs….

That’s correct – severely kinked. In discussions with many, the standard answer of too high an incubation temperature surfaced on several occasions. I incubated my eggs at 82 °F this year….only three out of about 40 exhibited this severe kinking. I hatched out numerous other baby snakes this year, none of which had even slight kinking. I still maintain that the females producing these clutches did not have proper nutrition, for example calcium. I am providing both animals with calcium to attempt to ameliorate this problem next year.

Well, there you have it: the good, the bad, and the ugly of my L. alterna production for the year! Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I realize that this information is anecdotal at best, but I am hopeful we get some good discussion going. Again, I would like to thank Dale DeNardo, Norm Nunley, Joe Forks, and Ron Tremper for very kindly sharing their ideas with me. I have no doubt that their suggestions have helped me a lot….

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G. Merker

Replies (9)

stevenxowens792 Sep 09, 2008 01:52 PM

Thanks so much for sharing! Excellent info... I am glad you had much better luck this year.

Best Wishes,

SXO792

alternater Sep 09, 2008 02:05 PM

Great, informative post Gerald. Thanks for sharing with everyone. Thats how we all benefit. My one counterpoint would be why is everyone so infatuated with 82 degrees?? Thats the temperature I first heard of back in the mid 70's when Bern Tryon successfully bred and hatched alterna. But we only heard of the positive results. How many died in the egg etc etc.?? I personally don't think that the eggs stay at a constant temp. when laid in the wild. I've never had an auto. thermostat to incubate eggs so I've always kept them at the room temp of my snakeroom which ranges from 75 - 80 degrees from April to early November. The earliest I ever had alterna eggs hatch were 72 days and some went to the mid eighties but I generally had a pretty high hatch rate.l I'd estimate at 85%. Not saying lower is better, just my own personal experience. I've had them die in the egg, and hatch out deformed also but not nearly as much as others I've talked to. Again thanks for the great post Gerold. BA P.S. Did you ever offer skinks to your Huecos?

greybanded Sep 09, 2008 02:15 PM

Great information. Thanks. I keep a variety of snakes and have had trouble with the few graybandeds I've bred producing good clutches(usually low hatch rates at best). Is the D3 liquid supplement typically available at most health food stores, drug stores, etc..? Did you also supplement with calcium in addition to D3 liquid or just the liquid?
William

TonyT89 Sep 09, 2008 03:40 PM

Hey Gerold!

Post of the month I'd say! I thought this post was a very excellent read! I will surely follow this advice when I get into breeding!

Top of the line photos by the way! Thanks for sharing your experiences!!

~Tony
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You can never have only one snake!

mike17l Sep 09, 2008 03:50 PM

Gerald, great information. most everyone's question is probably, Where can one find the liquid D3?
Great post.

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South Texas Herps

BobHansen Sep 10, 2008 08:29 AM

Although GMerk got his stuff from the mode lode in Switzerland, the closest we can find in the US is here:

http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/products/bio-d-mulsion.html

If this post is pulled, email me (sierraherps AT gmail DOT com) or Joe and we can forward the info.

Cheers,

Bob
SierraHerps.com

gmerker Sep 10, 2008 10:30 AM

As Bob Hansen pointed out, I received some liquid Vitamin D3 (no calcium) from Ron Tremper initially. He received his from a friend in Switzerland...Joe mentioned the Oasis Wellness brand as well which I used for early 2007. That year, I did get great egg laying, but cooked the eggs in the incubator as mentioned in my post....

Last winter, I traveled to Switzerland to visit relatives and purchased three bottles of liquid Vitamin D3 there....that is what I used during the 2008 breeding season.....

I do want to make this disclaimer....in the mid-1990's, when I mentioned increased hatch rates using RepCal® or Minerall®, I received letters from people experiencing all sorts of problems with their snakes, including enlarged hearts. These people ended up using the supplement on many other species of snakes as well...
It sounds like a lot of you are getting large numbers of eggs hatching....if you are experiencing success, you may not want to supplement....remember, it is easy to overdose a fat soluble vitamin like Vitamin D3!

BA: I know I know....82 °F is the temperature a lot of people use..and I did indeed get that from Bern Tyron's paper! Also, I did not use skinks....I did use fence lizards, side-blotched lizards and whiptail lizards.

Thanks to all for posting suggestions.....gmerk
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G. Merker

Dan Johnson Sep 12, 2008 08:20 PM

Congrats on the great success this year. I'm curious what your sex ratio was. I was always high male until I started incubating at cooler temps. Also I'm curious if you've experienced the skin pitting problem. I've found that correlates with too much D3.

--Dan

Joe Forks Sep 13, 2008 01:31 PM

G did not mention this, but do NOT supplement additional calcium in addition to D3, then you run into problems real quick. Vitamin D is the principal regulator of calcium homeostasis. That was one of the problems with Reptical. Even pinkies and fuzzies have a ready supply of calcium (if properly nourished by their mother).

I can't speak for G, but no one I know has experienced skin pitting issues using this product. Also, as G said, two drops per month does it, do not overdose.
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Photography by Joseph E. Forks

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