Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ive been using a 24/7 light cycle for my ackie but i would like to switch to 12/12 or 14/10 but i dont know how low the night time temp will be able to drop for it to still be safe. different caresheets say different things so im a little confused.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Do a search on the Aussie night time temps.
Find out where your's might be from and go with that.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

would the temperature inside an ackies burrow be different then outside? im sure someone already knows what it should be.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

sorry, i meant wouldnt the temperature....
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

You can use a heat pad. In the old days I used dozens of them. Then I found it better and easier to just leave the dang lites on.

But if the cage is in your room and it bothers you, then use a heatpad. I used the very cheapest type I could find that had temperature settings and used low. They can be found from about $7 to $10. Again, the monitor can pic the temps it wants.

I have to wonder about Scott, did he mention which part of Oz. and at what season. Heck you could end up with 1287578.769 different temps. Depending on where and when.

But then the monitors in Oz. try to do the same as yours, they seek places that have the temps they need. Air temps do not consider mass temps and sun angle temp absorption, etc, monitors do. Cheers

yes, its in my room and it keeps me up at night. i think it also might be messing with my snakes a little too. they're in a rack, with unclear tubs, on the other side of my bed, on the ground though.

i have spare CHE's from when i used them for my snakes. should i just screw those into the light fixture instead? my room doest get below 75 though.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

I mean, you worried, you fretted, you asked for help, all in order to get your monitor doing well. Is it doing well now?

So, after all that worry and fretting, you want to change it? I am not sure you are using your brain.

You have a problem. All problems have many ways to solve them. You can mess with what you worked hard to adjust(cage conditions) or you can go another direction. You can simply hang a curtain around the cage, so the light will not bother you. Or one of a zillion other solutions that will not muck up what you worked hard to achieve.

About you snakes, it won't bother them. About you, why does it bother you. I can sleep with the lites on, the TV on, kids jumping forth and back. Why does lite bother you? are you spoiled? if so, unspoil yourself.

Actually when I was young, I had to keep my reptiles in my room. Lite was no problem. but the sounds they made at night would keep me thinking, what the heck are they doing. No worries, I did live thru that.

I once knew a girl that told me, she can only sleep in her bed. I said, no worries, I will fix that. Well after travelling around this hemispere snake hunting and listening to other herpers, she soon learned to sleep, anywhere, at anytime, with no problems.

Keeping reptiles or any animal is a lot about training them to fit us. Guess what, we are animals and we too can be trained. So the question is, would you rather impact the health of your monitor, or train yourself a little?

By the way, in my humble opinion, CHE, are not for monitors. Heck, they are not for any reptile. Cheers

i was just trying to find a way so that my reptiles and i could be comfortable and i was. there's nothing wrong with that as far as im concerned. why do you feel the need to attack me just because of that? whats wrong with you today? bored maybe, wanna start a conflict maybe?? well i dont, i just want suggestions for my husbandry and i want to learn about monitors.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Just want you to think and come up with your own solution. Hopefully without impacting the progress you have already achieved.

Have you not achieved progress? So why would you want to hinder it or possibly hinder it? Cheers

its not like changing a bulb before i go to bed and again when i wake up will be the end of the world. i just want to see if it works, because if it does then it doesnt hurt my ackie at all and i sleep more comfortably. if it doesnt and it harms my ackie in any way then i will not change the bulb every night and ill just have to deal with the light. its not like i cant change right back to how i was doing things before.

you're the one who's always telling people to change things around and try new things to see if they have a good outcome, etc, etc. what gives now? why cant i just see if this works without you attacking me and basically saying that im changing things for the worst of my animal just so i can sleep better. thats not at all the case.

i may be 13 but im well spoken and educated so dont think you can take advantage of me and attack me like that just because i want to do something differently then you do.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

you asked how he was doing. hes doing great, he eats crickets like crazy and i have him 'trained' with crickets now. what ive been doing is showing him the crickets when i dust them in the bag and i always open the cage fore feeding to the right where he stack is. its amazing how smart he is. he's a fast learner.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

World, thats why i posted what I did, you have a hatchling monitor, its a baby. Which means its very delicate. You do not have room for error.

You now have a system that is working. You want to change it. Do you "know" what to look for if its not working? do you have experience when to change and what to change? It doesn't appear you do, so the very best advice is to leave it alone and let it grow up some, put on weight, and put on strenght, then you can try things that may or may not work. This is your first baby monitor isn't it?

You know people say all sorts of poop about what makes me so successful with monitors. But none ever mention what my strenght is. When I have a monitor or group of monitors doing well, I do not interfere or let anything interfere. Thats my job. To protect their progress. I protect them from academics, from everybody. I protect them from me. I try not to make bad decisions.

If you look at this board, how often do you see monitors doing really well? Its kind of rare. So why would you want to take a chance on a baby?

Again, you can do anything you like and I am sure you will. But you ask for advice and I gave it to you. Leave it alone until it gets bigger and stronger. If not, good luck, you will need it. Cheers

Frank, you have just contradicted yourself. in another thread awhile back i remember you saying, well not saying, more like correcting in a rude tone, that baby ackies were not delicate at all. i can show you the link if you'd like. im not saying you're wrong, just that you contradicted yourself.

yes, this is my first hatchling monitor and im having a lot of success with him. im going to just keep the light on. one thing though, i just put a sand-blasted grapevine in his cage fore him to climb on. will that harm him at all since i was having success BEFORE i put it in there?
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

You asked, I answered, if you do not like or want to do what I mentioned, then don't do it. Do what ever you want.

Its not about me, its about your monitor. Its yours, you can do what YOU want. It seems you want the lite off, then turn it off. End of story. All I can say is, good luck. Cheers

Because we do not agree does not make me rude. That I am saying what you do not want to hear is in some fashion rude. That I keep saying it is rude. But I think its a good rude. Because I am saying it for the benefit of your monitor.

You have somehow forgot that advice is only for your consideration.

If you want to make out that I am contradicting, myself or whatever, then you have lost all concept of what this is. As I say to those who want to fight me and not consider the advice, I am not the one with the problem. You are. Good luck

im not saying that because we disagree that, that makes you rude. im saying you're being rude because you asked me "are you spoiled?" and asked "just how smart are you?" out of sarcasm. in my oppinion, thats being rude and i dont appreciate it. that'd not how to help someone when they have a question.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Sir, those are not statements, they're questions. They are suppose to make you rethink your direction and make sure you are not being one of those. And if you are being "spoiled or not smart", thats fine too. Its your choice. If we are suppose to be friends and I thought that was the case, a friend is suppose to have your back. By causing you to think and hopefully make the right decision, I am being your friend. I could just say nothing and watch your monitor die. Or I can help you. Which one is a friend suppose to do??????

I choose to cause you to use your own brain and think, I do not choose to tell you want to do. So all in all, its none of my business what you do. So I will butt out. Sorry I tried to help, and good luck. Cheers

its really not that big of a deal if the light bothers you (it would bother me) then shut it off use a infered bulb or a uth he will be fine im no fr i have not even bred monitors never tried but i have been keeping them for10 years with only 1 loss
and it was not from having a 12/12 light cycle anyway my point is he will be fine if you turn the light off at night(but use a uth or red)
just my 2cents
also frank i mean no disrespect with the "im no fr" i have a lot of respect for what you and what you have done

you are rude. the way you approached the situation was rude.

who was rude?

Frank if you want someone to rethink what they're doing, then tell them to rethink and explain why they should rethink it!! dont say "just how smart are you?" and "are you spoiled?". people tend not to listen to people like you when you're being sarcastic like that.

i did take your advise and i wont be truning the light off, so, thank you. just next time a newbie like me asks a question try to be nicer. i know you're full of knowledge about monitors and its annoying when newbies like me have a simple question but be nicer so people can learn from you without being shyed away
by the way you approach a situation.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Better yet, if your going to worry about me being rude, then I perfer to not help you.

So the heck what if I am the rudest man on earth? what does your monitor care about me being rude? Therefore why would you care? The chances of us meeting are slim. Are we going to be good buddies or something? So why would you care about me being rude over helping your monitor? Are you getting the point.

The problem is twofold. First, you should not care how information is wraped. A dead monitor is very very rude. To me, the ruddest thing is harming an animal that has no say in the matter. As I said many times, you finally have your monitor going in a positive direction and you want to mess with that, to me, thats rude.

Is it my rudness or is it your feelings? is it possible your feelings are hurt because I am very strait forward with you and we finally disagree???? It goes back to this. You can worry about the rudeness or worry about the health of your monitor. I chose to dig out the information that is of help, I do not care how rude it is. In fact, sometimes it needs to be rude to get thru my skull.

In the first post I said, use a heat pad. After that, the story need not have gone any farther. But it did, Why? Cheers

FR was rude. All you did was ask a question. You were concerned about the light because it kept you awake. That doesn't make you spoiled. FR is an idiot. Don't worry about him.

...has spent so much time with cranky monitors thats hes starting to become one. Don't get mad at him because hes rude(and he is rude) hes helping us remember? He doesn't get paid for this you know and he is only human(a rude one at that.) If hes rude to you, take his sarcastically written advice for your monitors sake and post a rude remark back thats what ill do... right frank? ........"solute"

I am not being rude. You fellas are spoiled. Consider, the context of the subject. Your imprisoning an animal in a cage and your thinking about your shuteye. All after you were having problems with your monitor, and your monitor is responding positively, but only recently. Consider, all progress is always temporary. Think about that.

I think thats being spoiled. I think the person envolved has lite switches, and air conditioning and nice blankets and three meals a day. Yes, spoiled. Being spoiled is not so bad, its means your very lucky, he could have been born in a mud hut, sans air conditioning, meals, etc.

The smart part is common sense. Making a poor decision is not smart. But I guess this goes back to being spoiled. Many people here are more concerned with how smart they are precieved then the actual effects of the decisions they are making on a reptile that has no choice, but to live or die. So yes, spoiled and possibly not smart.

If they go ahead and make a good decision, then you can be smart, temporarily. But only for a moment as things change and they do, you have to keep making smart decisions, or you will be dumb. Because keeping monitors is nothing but a series of made decisions(by you).

The reality, even with us "experts" its a constant balance of good(smart) and bad(dumb) decisions. If we make great decisions all the time, then we would all have baby monitors coming out all our orifices, of all species. Even after making a whole bunch of smart decisions, we often follow them with a real bad decision. Thats the real name of the game. There is no guarantee your next decision will be a good one.

If you cannot take being thought of as one who makes dumb decisions, you should not keep monitors. Your first dumb decision was deciding to keep monitors. They are not easy, they are prone to making you feel dumb and make poor decisions. Cheers

I was just adding my two cents on YOU frank not the monitors- you may be able to tell us how to deal with our monitors- but its dealing with you thats the hard part... but like i said in the above article... as much as you don't care about me as i do you... i will listen because you know more then me... and if dealing with a little bit of rudness will potentially save my monitors life... well im just fine by that
later

first off frank i think your info is great... but isnt keeping the lights on 24/7 to keep the temps the same just making it easy for us (fitting our needs) where in the world does it not get dark at night.
not trying to start a fight just my thought

Monitors should be able to get "dark" night and day. They normally spend most of each day in the dark(wild and captive)

So if you understand that monitors go to a dark place to sleep and or lower their metobolism. Then you understand that they do this anytime. You then understand that lite does not bother them to sleep or to chill, because they go to where its dark. We provide that. Which is much harder, but much safer, to do then placing heatpads for night heat. So its not about whats easist.

Also we found they perfer to bask under the lites, as much at night as in the day. Their choice.

They do so to avoid humans, even if they are tame. And to avoid eachother, if they want.

Sometimes pairs and groups bask together and sometimes not. Its sorta like making a much larger cage. I imagine in nature, if they did not want to bask by another they would simply leave. But in captivity they cannot.

Also I fail to understand how you folks(that ask this) think a box has anything to do with nature. I also fail to see how you think, lite in the day and dark at night is all they need. I really do fail to understand how you cannot understand, they require many many tools and options to do their daily needs.

Look at it in this way, its not natural, but neither is any of your boxes. The important part is, monitors use it in a natural way. That is, they express natural behaviors using lites 24/7. As much or more natural behaviors as any lite approach.

Lastly, I have expressed year after year, great success using lites 24/7 (and with other cycles for that matter). All my success compared to people who question this or that, that have no or little success. You can say anything you like or rationalize anyway you like. It simply works and works well. My monitors kept this way, live as long or longer then anybodys, they grow as fast or faster then anybodys, they breed as well or better then anybodys, so what was the question?

The reason I tend to bring up results is. Husbandry is about applied technique. As any applied technique, its value is reflected in results. It has shown superior results. End of that story. Cheers

i wasnt refering to my box as nature im not that, well stupid not saying you called me stupid frank but anyone who thinks ther "box" is like nature is.. also i do provide plenty of dark hides and about 20 plus inches of dirt for any burrowing they want to do . all i was really trying to say to i think marshal is having a 12/12 day night isn't in my opinion going to hurt or kill his monitor.. but i am at this point just a keeper not a breeder mabye some day mabye not

oh yeah i totally got your point i pretty much understand ALL your info
and its great!!!
really it is....

How do you know its not going to harm his monitor? Do you know the history? Do you know this keepers husbandry experience and abilities? Sir this is a very strong point for the internet. You know know anything about the situation. Or at least very little. Consider, he keeps asking basic questions, so you must consider him new.(not dumb or spoiled, just new)

Lets break it down. This keeper, recently acquired his ackie. He did a very good job of preparing to house his ackie(his first good decision) The made sure his cage was as close to good as possible before he allowed me to send the monitor.(his ackie is a recent hatchling, I have intimate knowledge of this)

The problem is, many keepers think once they set it up, its suppose to work properly. After all, he did what he was told. And keep in mind, he did a good job. The reality of keeping is, all cages require constant changes and modifications.

Next, he recieved the monitor. The monitor did not react in a way he thought it would. It was shy and would not feed in front of him. I do not know what he was thinking it would do, for that you would have to ask him. He asked for help on this forum. A few adjustments were made and the monitor started feeding better. The questions of how much better and to what degree are not known.

Within days of this improvement, he wants to change the conditions to something else. The truth is, its does not matter to what. Whenever a change is made, it does impact the monitor. The question is how much. Of course with larger monitors, the effect may not even be noticeable. With smaller monitors, the effects of change can be very noticeable.

If you go back, you would see, My recomendation would be to leave it alone and get some growth and weight on it first. Then I recomended some ways to solve the problem. Newbies are very impatient, which can be considered not smart, and spoiled. They want to be entertained right away. That can be considered spoiled. ITs spoiled by the availibility of instant entertainment. Animals simply cannot compete with MP3's or IPODS, or computers, and direct TV. It takes a bit longer then switching stations.

In my humble opinion, to change the conditions of an individual monitor that only recently when from questionable, to a positive behavior is not smart. To do this with a baby is even more on the not smart side of the ledger. To not wait a week or a few weeks or months(what ever it takes to put on some size) is again, not so smart. Again the subject is a very recent hatchling.

All of this is because the lites on at night. That this keeper refuses to allow the monitor to gain strenght or simply wants HIS way, is in my humble opinion a little spoiled. Then considering there are a thousand ways to solve the problem without having to change the recent successful direction in cage conditions, is again, not so smart and a little spoiled.

In my humble opinion, I would think anyone with a brain would want a recent hatchling that only barely started to progress in their care, to gain strenght and size before making changes. Consider changes are a gamble, the successful exsisting conditions are not.

This brings to mind a quote from a Western, "are you feeling lucky mister" The big difference is, the gunfighter that said that, was talking about the other gunfighter. Is that gunfighter feeling lucky with his own life. In our case, our gunfighter is gambling with the monitors life, not his own.

With a hatchling, a smart person would not gamble on such a minor easily fixed situation.

The sad part is, this persons ego is over riding his intelligence. Which is so very common here.

So yes, it "may" not be a problem, but there is no real reason to find out, why not let the monitor get stronger? See how simple that is. Cheers

i would not turn the light off at night and switch it, and, i havent. my monitor is doing great. he's eating like crazy. so, i ask this. why do you continue to call me spoiled and say that im not smart if a stated already that i would keep the light on?
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

You folks go on and on about me being rude, so I explained the situation. I tried to help you, and all I get is being called rude. What is rude is not helping you, which many many lurkers on here do. They have experience and lurk, but do not help.

Marshall, All you had to do was say thank you for your advice and either use it or not. By you going on an on, you caused others to go on and on. By you saying this and that, you caused me to use analogies that somehow make me sound rude. In an attempt to prevent harm to YOUR monitor. So whos rude?

The real truth is, we are all rather rude for worrying about our feelings when the life of a living breathing creature is in a Box. More truth is, we are very very dumb when it comes to monitors, get over it.

The truth is, I make dumb decisions all the time. Most of the time I catch them in time before it harms my monitors. Other times I don't. Some of those dumb decisions are helping people, I really should not try to do that. All it does is upset them. Makes them feel dumb if someone has to help them. They have the problems, but I am rude for trying to help. Cheers

people need to not be so defensive about franks replys he is to the point and his info is pretty much dead on so if i ask a question and the answer might seem a little rude who gives a sh@# all i care about is my animals not my emotions
rock on frank!!

Once people show they care more about their animals then their feelings, I am not so rude to them, hahahahahahahaha. Its kinda true.

I hope people understand, not all decisions and every decision is about the monitor. But without question, the monitors needs at least should be considered before you go on making it about your convienence. Cheers

ok, thank you Mr. Retes.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

you are right he should let the monitor get some size and weight and feeding properly..i didn't know the whole story with the monitor (hatchling feeding ect.) so once again your right not to make any sudden changes as they could hinder his progress.

I was trying to get the poster to do some research on his critters.
Ya know, natural history, habitat, all that fun stuff.
Frank, you should know me buy now.
I would rather someone take the time to learn all they can about the critters they keep or have an intrest in.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

hiya

If your temp ranges are good now, and you have plenty of tight-squeeze hidey spots, some away from the light, leave the light 24/7. Don't change a good thing. These guys are in your room? LOL! You should buy some earplugs... some monitors get rowdy at night. If you can't sleep with the light on, go to a beauty supply store and get a sleep mask. They are very comfy, and it will be dark!

Some advice.

Don’t expect a sugar coating in an informational forum like this. There is no pay here for the hours these guys spend trying to advise others, who more often than not don't accept/use that advice to the detriment of their lizards. Not everyone has great social skills These peeps, Frank in particular, are brilliant when it comes to monitors. Most of what we find out here as new monitor owners is a shock. The pet store/sellers of these animals don’t usually tell you how MUCH work, time and money it takes to keep them HAPPY and healthy. Some of these guys have watched lots and lots of monitors die young over the years because people don’t want to accept this is NOT the pet they expected, monitors don’t make good pets. They require a LOT of specialized care and a specialized home you must maintain. MOST monitors in the pet trade die young. So sad isn’t it? Please don’t focus on the words that are used, focus on the message from the best source you are ever going to get. You think Frank is tuff? Monitors are much tougher, and will probably like you less... lol. Sometimes you must pick through a post or thread to find it, but remember you are here for the information, not the words around it. How you choose to use it is up to you.

Good luck! –H-