Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Two questions-I have a 4' male argus (hornii I think) and his primary diet is boneless chicken breast, a little less than a half pound a week, with a variety of invertebrates thrown in. He is extremely healthy and has even bred (the eggs eventually went bad). The only problem is that his feeding response has gone berserk. Once he is out of the tank (I try to take him out at least once a week) he is very well-behaved (for an argus), but he nearly takes my fingers off anytime I open the enclosure. Will feeding him more help curb this? He seems to calm down a little even a day or two after eating.
Also, if I do feed him more, are eggs safe to add as a regular part of the diet? I gave them to him often as a baby but I figured it might be different for an adult.

Now, if you got eggs from him, hes a she, if they went bad, they were infertile to start, good eggs have an immune system. Of course female argus usually dont get that big,lol.
Anyways, do not feed meat, eggs etc, except maybe as a rare food item, use something healthy, such as mice, rats, peeps, roaches, quail, etc.
Also consider that argus are in general jumpy, and dislike being handled at all. They are also known to charge you for food when hungry. Of course when they are small they fear you and will act like they are calm about being handled, when they grow up they dont fear you and will stand their ground, feed good foods, useful foods to it, and feed more, see if the attitude improves.

How often do you feed it? You had said, "He seems to calm down a little even a day or two after eating." This may have something to do with it. They do have a great feed response.
-----
I want to die just like my uncle, asleep at the wheel, not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car!

Ed

Alright so no one one feeds their monitors raw meat or eggs? what's wrong with that? And I give him a calcium supplement to make up for the bones. How often do you all feed your guys? I guess I will have to just get used to the feeding response, I knew it would never be a savannah!
To clarify- I don't handle it per se I take him out and let him roam (supervised)

i feed my babies every 2 to 3 days i use pinkies most of the time crickets also, adults i feed my females ever 3 and males 4 days, they will eat you out of house belive me, all of my males charge a little more than my females too,, my females are a little more chilled out, i keep little more weight on my females for breeding,good luck
tjsreptiles

Hey in the 2nd pic, are the babys cross's or pure argus?
-----
0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

I have fed the ones I had ground turkey, hamburger, and even other stuff. I fed mice/rats most every time I fed though. I fed them daily, but they were only 3 feet long or a little longer. The monitor I have now (not argus) will not eat every day. I offer food every other day, so that he has the opportunity to eat if he wants.

My current guy dos not have the feeding response of an argus. That is one reason I love argus, they will charge for food. ;E That makes feeding them an exciting.
-----
I want to die just like my uncle, asleep at the wheel, not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car!

Ed

The best foods by far to feed them and what you should be feeding them is whole animals, why, whole animals contain hair and feathers (insoluable fiber), gut contents, organs, tendons, nerve tissue, blood and vessels, claws, skin, etc etc, these things have many many vitamins and minerals in them, no supplementation is needed, also the calcium is contained in a source thats easy to absorb and use, the animals fat and liver cantains D3.
Theres more to what they need than meat and eggs, of course when you see monitors fed on people food, dogfood, and catfood in the long term and are given to rescues because either the owner cant keep them anymore, cant handle the responsibility, lost interest, or knows the animal is sick and the owner doesnt want to have it when its really sick, you would see why I tell you stick with a healthy diet. You could add on occasion meats and eggs, but this would be around 1-2 times a month or a few times in a few weeks, not in any amount. The basis of its diet should be healthy food.
Heres a few that eat nothing but whole animals, of course they eat a prepared food once in a while that consists of whole ground horse with extra calcium, D3, vitamins, and a few fruits and veggies added.



The rest of my monitors eat feeder insects, and some eat whole animals with them.

I am going to put frozen mice or quails back in, but they will be between chicken feedings, along with the crix and crawfish. The chicken is cheaper and easier to get, which is why I use it. It is tough to keep up with argus appetite! I will post some current pics of Little Jerry Seinfeld when I can take some, but here he is at a year old:

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=146340

Seems small for 1 year old also, just guessing by the water dish size, should be around 3ft or more at least. Females have that little short nose that gives them a bird look. Heres a male flavi-argus cross, see the head shape and compare. This guy is around 1.5 years old and approaching 4ft in length, he eats 4 mice or 2-4 chicken peeps at a time.

I wouldnt feed them meat pieces or other human foods except once or twice in a few weeks. Chicken peeps are inexpensive, and mice if you get them frozen bulk.

I have owned this monitor from nearly a hatchling and have even bred it, as I said, so I am quite sure of the sex. He is 2 and a half years old and about 4' now, bigger than the 7 yr old female he bred with. Kudos to you if yours are over 3' at a year, that seems quite big. I do not feed him all he can eat because until I get a yard to build a REAL enclosure, I have to work with a 5' X 3' indoor enclosure, and the slower he grows the better. I know a lot of people poo-poo the thought of keeping them in anything short of zoo quality housing, but my guy is active, alert and just as happy as any argus out there. As soon as I see my friend with his digi camera, I will post some pics.

dale gribble you are absolutely ret***arded. What are you talking about. Yuo should not have that kinda outlook when it comes to monitors. If you dont have the space or money, dont have them. Chicken strips are no good. I feed mine mice, fish,chicks, roaches, grasshoppers. Do you notice, all whole food just like shvar said. I will occasionally give him turkey meat or chicken hearts and livers but that is because they are easily supplemented. The calcium and vitamins sticks well to these things. Otherwise I dont need to use vitamins because I feed whole foods. It has been proven over and over that whole foods are better. My argus is close to 3 ft at 10 months wich is what is normal he is a male and that is the size thjey should be. Your monitor is probably stunted by now and will never reach its potenial size. There is only one thinf I can say, poor lizard

I would hardly call a 4', 2 yr old male stunted. 5' is an upper limit of argus monitor size, mine is still growing. And, if you didn't read the rest of the posts, I said that I throw plenty of inverts in, like dozens of crix every week, hissing cockaroaches (I breed my own), crayfish, and rarely shrimp.

if you have a new guinea V.p. horni (which is only argus readily available and affordable in USA) it will not get to 5 feet total length, maybe 4. They are a slightly smaller size than the nominate species from australia. And they eat alot of insects and carrion in the wild...not mice. Occasional eggs are ok-not as a staple! as they egg raid in the wild regularly. I use turkey burger and mice and Zophobas worms as my "standard" diet, but i get fresh ducks and eggs too

Of that breeding? I ask because females will mount males, males will mount males, females will mount females. Its dominance in those cases. By looking at the picture, that monitor looks to be a small female, after all argus males can exceed 5ft, heres a male and female pure argus together, note the size difference, lol.
Females have little short stubby snouts with thinner tails, males have bigger heads, much bigger, tall nostrils, high eye ridges etc. Heres a male and female a friend had.

Heres another male, younger, he was kept with that female pictured above, he was a bit bigger yet smaller than "T" the big 5ft argus.

Heres "T" again and that female, he was missing a bit of tail also.

When a monitor defecates and two enormous hemipenises protrude, I'm sure it's a male. The female laid 6 eggs after breeding, unfortunately they all eventually went bad, but I'm sure that's the fault of my terrible husbandry, after all monitor breeding is SO easy, right? Now, as to what all of you have been saying about 3' juveniles, do you think they grow like that in the wild? When you feed a monitor to its heart's desire, they will grow and grow. I doubt any wild argus monitor would consistently eat the amount of food yours, or even mine, recieves. If you want to power feed your animals and grow them way beyond natural growth rates, that's your perogative. Like I said, mine is happy and behaves like any normal argus monitor so I don't care if you call me a "retard" (I guess teenagers post here too, eh?) I WILL OUT HERP YOU ANY DAY!!!

As a matter of fact, why don't all of you do your animals a favor, fly them out to New Guinea or Australia and let them go, how dare you keep them in a cage of any kind, you sickos!

OOOOOO burn of the century " you sickos", "its your perogitive" You really showed every one. I have one question "Dale Gribble" if you had a child would you underfeed it because if they were in the wild they wouldnt get as much food. Monitors may be the same as wild animals but they are not. Your keeping them. Although you dont make sense I can see an inkling of intelligence in your thought process. Why dont we just call it a day and pretend this conversation never happened. You keep on keepin on with your own husbandary techniques and ill do the same. Everyone has the right to do things their own way. I would just suggest using whole foods over chicken breasts. Do it for the sake of your monitor. Keep em healthy and maybe little jerrys next batch of eggs wont rot. See ya later and good luck. All this is is helpful criticism. I would be happy to take sh88it from everyone if I was doing things wrong. If you have any questions and would like to listen to the answers than post a message and I will be happy to answer along with all the other herp enthusiasts. Greetings

sorry, let me clarify calling you sickos. You say I am all wrong for keeping my monitor in what you consider a small enclosure. Well, in the wild argus monitors wander miles a day. Do you have miles of room for them? No, didn't think so, so how could you do that to them?. My monitor, and yours too, have never had acres to run around in. They only know what they have. In other words, when my monitor is doing his argus thing, digging, lifting his logs, hunting, he is not thinking "gee, I wish I had a few more square feet to rummage around in". Many herp keepers should take a pyschology course. YOU CANNOT ASCRIBE HUMAN THOUGHTS AND EMOTIONS TO REPTILES! Yes, argus' are the most intelligent, but they still only have a very small, primitive brain. Its a fact!! When someone sticks you in a small room and you wish you could go outside, that comes from your cerebral cortex. They don't have that! Wherever they are, that is their territory. Mine is not sitting there "thinking" about being in something bigger. If he was bored or stressed, do you think he would hunt with the same vigor, every day? Every morning he wakes up and explores like he has never been there before.
Sure I want to build a bigger enclosure and I am working on it, but don't try to come at me like I am being inhumane, like some kid keeping an iguana in a bird cage and feeding it lettuce. The San Diego Zoo has wide-open spaces for their monitors. You don't. You should think about that.

I do think about that and you are absoultely right. I built a 13by13 foot cage in my yard for this reason and take him on frequent walks for stimulation.

At least part of it, its one of the smaller cages. Note if you look closely you can see 3 of 4 burrows he dug, each is big and deep enough that he can get every bit of his almost 4ft length out of sight in them.

This is just the basking spot alone..

He could make use of much more, but I can say hes happy with this, he acts like a monitor and he can easily turn around wihout bumbing anything. The cage also has verticle space, the top of the elevated basking light assembly, all 3 medium and large sized monitors I have make use of them.

Yes, they do have the capability of being a breeding adult at between 6 months and 18 months of age, of course you may believe as you wish though.
In the wild things occur such as food types etc so that they can survive, thats all, they make use of whats most abundant and what gives them the biggest return with the smallest effort. In the wild that may involve traveling long distances, it also involves fighting the elements, disease, drought, starvation, floods, fires, parasites, etc our job in captivity is to remove the hardships and allow them to be monitors, they are ecthotherms, they take advantage of what resources are available to do what they do. As far as cage size, the important part is that they have usable space, usable furniture, and usable temps in that cage, you know the ability to make use of each and every temperature area with their entire body.
Power feeding, lol, thats a funny term created by those who want to cut back on feeding, stunt them, slow them down, and or save money in food, it is a non existant term when it comes to reptiles, when they are full they stop eating. Also powerfeeding is like force feeding, or fooling them into eating more than they want to, not just offering food and they stop when they are ready to.
Of course again you can believe what you want to.
As far as your tiny aquarium pictured in the gallery that the animal is stuffed into, well thats your fault for getting an animal you werent ready for, or cannot handle. I didnt mention these things before now because I was trying to keep this a conversation to help you so you could learn, now the full truth comes out.
Prove us wrong, instead of running your mouth, prove we are wrong. Oh , by the way, infertile eggs go bad, good eggs have an immune system that protects them from mold, etc, they dont go bad unless they are infertile, and by the way females lay eggs without males being anywhere around, its a sign that they have reached the ability to do so, this is from having the available resources to do so.
In a year, or 2 or whatever, even in 6 months let us know how your monitors are doing, prove us wrong. Since you are so hardheaded and belive you are right, I pity your monitors, I hope you improve their conditions before they go to a better place.
You are free to believe as you wish, but before you give advice to others it better be true or helpful, until then let you learn the hard way with yours.
Have a nice day, even though you insist on acting like a little kid and insulting others for trying to help you, I wont stoop to your level.
Yes Sobeks cage is too small, I wanted to go a few feet longer, taller, and wider, but I settled with a useful cage that was a bit smaller, still its almost as big as my bathroom, can you say the same? Does your monitor have the ability to dig a burrow that can fit its entire body underground? Mine do, evey one of them, with plenty of extra space in most of the cages. Do your monitors have the ability to go from room temps to 86-90f air temps and 130f plus basking temps with their entire body? Mine can and then some. Yes monitors live in burrows, they do this because its home, they recognize it, because your not smart enought to do whats right doesnt mean they are not very intelligent, of course maybe if you kept them right you would see a happy healthy, intelligent monitor,.
Have a nice day.

Not everyone, just you : )

P.S. my monitor could beat up yours

Real Mature. Since were takin it to this level my monitor will kick everyone's a##ss

I asked you a question, what was the result of the breeding? You said the eggs went bad. Anyone whos ever had eggs layed good and or bad by any reptile should know that fertile eggs dont go bad unless you destroy them, yet infertiles always turn moldy, shrivel up, etc. Thats a simple fact, the fact was there was no breeding that occured, in fact it was a female that just layed infertile eggs.
This means the female had what resources it took to produce eggs once, that was all that occured.
You asked a simple question about diet, you were given an answer you didnt like, therefore you were only looking for someone to support or validate that you were doing everything right, not to get advice. You turned the advice down, you said that others giving the advice didnt know what they were talking about, others who have knowledge and experience. You insulted because those who gave the advice tried to get you to understand what was wrong and to fix what was wrong simply because that advice does not agree with what you are doing, this shows the maturity level of a spoiled little kid.
You were the one who tried to convince others who know better that you can jam them into a little cage they barely fit in, give them an inch of wood chips for substrate, feed them people food as a basis of their diet, and that they are happy because they are not intelligent enough to know better.
The only thing youve proven is that you are looking for someone to agree with your bad husbandry and say everything is alright.
How about trying advice you were given, compare the results in say, 1 year, then comment on what happened, see which works better. I know the answer, if you want to prove something, first you need to learn and prove it to yourself.
Of course if you cannot handle caring for those monitors properly, theres always others who can, they would be better off that way, of course if they died quicker they would be better off.
Have a nice day, I wont stoop to your level.

A large male Storrs monitor, the second smallest species, this ones very large 16.5 inches long.

A real pair of red ackies, male and female, adults..

A female laying eggs, 1 foot underground, yes I dug them up a bit early and took this picture as the eggs were being layed.

Healthy fertile eggs.

Hey what is happening here.

Heres what happened.

13 days later, 2 inches in growth already, by simply offering what they can use and letting them go.

2.5 months old, Sobek..

9.5 months later, 5ft long, shes a female, 1 year old here.

Around 3 years old, over 6ft long, also capable of swallowing my arm.

Almost 6.5ft long, 4 years old in December, almost 3ft STV alone, and 43 inches of tail.

My male flavi-argus, almost 1 ft of growth in 4 months since I got him.

His cage, with 1ft of dirt for substrate, and many burrows he creates on his own.

I was given this fresh import, hes missing a big section of tail, this is straight out of the box hes eating 5 mice and 3 chicken peeps already, right after getting him home.

A little while later already, notice the difference, yes he dirty, he digs alot, as well eats alot.

One of my little monitor cages, lol..

Inside that cage, 2 feet deep of dirt, and a multilevel basking spot..

They even dig under the basking spots, note, you still cant see the bottom of the cage on the shallow end under the basking spot, the dirt is deep enough to use.

And yes there is a burrow in that cage also, in fact this picture was taken by reaching an arms length inside the burrow and taking the picture with the flash. Can your monitors go underground like normal monitors do to escape heat, light, stress, to conserve moisture, to lay eggs, to be a monitor?

Have a nice day, now show me what you believe a happy healthy monitor is...