Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please excuse the temporary set up/tank. I am currently making a more suitable set up that will be 6 foot long, 2 feet wide, and 30 inches tall.

Did the female pick out the curtains in the background? You know how they like to keep house and all.

Congrats
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I want to die just like my uncle, asleep at the wheel, not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car!

Ed

As you can see, this will be a "living entertainment center" in our living room. I do wood work on occation. I will post it when it is finished. It is 6 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 30 inches high...lifted on rollers and will also have a "book shelf" above it. It is made of Red Oak, and I will post some pictures when I am finished. Should be by the end of the weekend...as I want to let the several layers of "urine proof" finish to dry for several days before I put the Varanids in it.

Here is another picture "in progress" picture

and another image...

I don't know why those pictures look like crap. I tried uploading them again, but they still come out fuzzy. Oh well...

HI Lee,

Nice woodwork. Here is my enclosure 7'x4'x5'(lxwxh). Two feet of dirt and 1300 pounds of rock all hauled in by me . In there are two crosses. a four foot male argusxgouldii and a three foot female argusxflavi.

Dave

If they bred, and some time later you came home noticing your female "lost a lot of weight" how would you go about looking for the eggs under the dirt?

P.S. I hope you have those rocks very secure!

Hi Lee,
The havre bred and I have eggs incubating from this pair. That is where it is important that you pay close attention to your monitors. I gave my female a choice of a nest box and she used it. I made it out of a 20 gallon rubbermade tote, just filled it with whatever I had lying around(dirt,coco bedding,cypress,ect.) and drilled a round hole in the side just big enough for the smaller female to get through.
As for the rockpile, it is locked in there pretty well. The monitors have been in there a year now without incident. The female uses the pile for a tight secure hide, and the male just uses it as a basking spot.

Dave

An older pic of the enclosure

Especially the one on the ground, the pattern and color seems a bit different from the other. You can see both species in those.
Really neat monitors, the flavi seems to hold the argus back some compared to the pure argus. They are alot less apt to bite, infact it takes some pushing to get there, none the less not handling monitors,lol.

Argus monitors are very uninclined to bite. I have never had a bit or attempt in 3 years with several adult males. They do, however, stand their ground and rise up on 2 legs, occasionally lung, and can develop an aggressive feeding response...but they just dont bite. I handle them daily and the thought of a bite doesn not even enter my mind.

Some wont, some hesitate, but many Ive seen will just walk/run up to you and confidently bite. I was however told a few years back that flavi-argus are hard to get to bite you, or rarely will ever bite. So far Ive found that it took some pushing and handling to get this one to bite. In fact many pure argus Ive known will bite you to see if your hand or fingers are edible then decide afterwards if it was worth it, lol. Of course monitors being individuals there are many examples of each in personality.
Supposedly the natural defense of flavis goulds and crosses is to run, tail whip etc but very few are inclined to bite in defense. Being that this is the first time in years Ive been bit by any monitor, except a baby bosc I was given which didnt even leave scratches on the skin, it suprised me.
Also consider mine was only a warning bite this time, I havent been "bulldogged" by a monitor since one of my old wild caught blackthroats, niles, or my old timor. I think bulldogging incidents with monitors teach you a bit about handling tolerance, so do warnings, only thats why they do it.

I've had six pure V.p. horni over the last few years. adult males and hatchlings and none of them have ever attempted to bite. not true.

They are not so inclined to bite as say a healthy nile monitor, and Ive seen them less inclined than a some water monitors, but I know of some examples that would bite you for reaching in their cages and not watching them close enough.
I can give examples of whitethroats that do not bite, but also enough examples that have bitten when pushed enough, or have once that I know of, yet I can name 9 examples between my collection and 2 friends that do not, this doesnt mean albigs dont bite at all. I can give as many examples either way.
Also consider that the bite I recieved was the first in years from any monitor, so getting bit happens, you just try not to be in that position or push them to decide thats their option.

Sure, it's always possible with any monitor. You have to at least have it in the back of your mind when you enter their cages. But i got the jist that you were pigeon-holing Argus as biters vs crosses w/ flavi, perhaps you breed and sell the crosses, ... i dont know...doesn't matter. But my personal experience is that they mock charge, raise up on hind legs and bluff or bump your leg. They dont do (like you said with Niles) the death grip bite and shake when you have to pry them off or run them under water to get them to let go. I've had that experience with a large nile and a columbian tegu and Argus' are not that evil, just very curious and hungry all the time.

I think the more immediate bite defense monitors are the arboreal tree monitors like the beccari and prasinus. They seem to open mouth when you handle them very quickly. And, of course, niles. But, like you said, everyone has their experiences...and you dont forget a bite.

I have to agree with you. I have two decently large adult argus, one 48" the other 45", and had one smaller one, and they will all hiss, posture, and carry on, but not once in the past several months (yeah, I know it's not a long time) have they tried to actually bite me. Now, that's not to say I'd take the risk of trying to feed them by hand! Geez...I could only imagine the result... But when handling, they'll scratch and tail whip, try to run, etc., but never try to bite. Of course like you, I always keep that possibility in the back of my mind incase one decides to not follow the status quo, because a lizard that size would certainly not have any trouble "desleeving" a finger if it wanted to. Anyway, when's someone going to finally invent the 'ever-lasting-mouse-stopper' for these guys?!
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

"ever-lasting mouse stopper"???? are you talking about their neverending appetite? man, they eat like crazy, rarely gain weight and dont produce a fraction of scat-my savannah eats nothing, is fat and craps every day in his water basin. big difference in metabolism!

Side by side with an albig I have that was the same or similar size. Both can eat, wow, Ive always known albigs to eat and eat, and eat non stop, so much it doesnt seem physically possible to fit the food in them, but they grow and grow and grow in thew process. As young growing animals both seem to eat unendingly, my WC BT in the next cage eats more and is outgrowing the flavi-argus, but thats expected. Someday they slow down when they are adults though, you get used to that huge food intake then it slows to a point that it seems like somethings wrong. I like both species for their wild appetites, makes you realize your doing something right, lol.

To my thunmb, his teeth went straight through the side and bottom of the thumb all the way through the thumb nail, it was a warning bite only. It hurt and pulsated for around 6 hours, then was senitive to the touch for 36 hours. After 2 weeks its almost completely healed, not the best suggestion, but I dont bother getting professional care unless all else fails, Ive been bit a few times pretty bad over the years, the worst being some 4 to almost 5ft albigs by far.

Get defensive.
No, I do not breed flavi-argus crosses, I have bred red ackies though. Ive kept many species over the years, and helped set up and care for many others in that time. But my experience with argus both male and female shows that they will resort to biting alot faster than an argus cross, say flavi or goulds or 3 way cross. I keep one flavi-argus cross I was given, a male that gets defensive, does a really weak tail whip (almost clumsy like), then if cornered will act as if he will bite, then flinch away, if really pushed and restrained he bit once in defense so far. The argus crosses Ive seen and dealt with this one included seem to mock charge then second guess themselves a good distance away then run. I like the argus appetite in them, smaller less confrontational lizard at least with males. Dont get me wrong argus are neat animals, I just prefer crosses over peure argus for being prettier, smaller, less apt to bite, but with the good features of the argus included.

Beautiful specimens...good luck with them!-jb

Also, they look like either pure Flavirufus or maybe very distant grandparent had some Panoptes in it...but i would essentially call them flavi based on pattern and body/head shapes.

I'm referring to the original strand pic "sand monitors". with the carpet...not the last pic of the pair in the enclosure that is built into the wall.

Hi and those look like crosses,but please give them dirt.

nice monitors!!!! they look great here are some of mine

Hey, TJS... Are the young ones in the last picture you posted flavi cross or pure??? looks like a cross but just wondering.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)