Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys Ive been taking a look at some water monitors that are juvies, sub adults, and adults. Some of them appear to be skinny.

I know that each animal is different and different owners feed differently but on average which is bulkier, fatter, and more muscular the water monitor or the ionidies (black throat).

Many of the water i have seen have very skinny necks and small heads. Is that because they are still growing and reach their mass towards adult hood or is that just how they are (genetics).

Take a look at some of these:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=340352

as you can see the head/neck are king of skinny

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=339126

this guy is very very skinny. at 6months a bt can be much fatter. i am guessing he was underfed or malnourished.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=335961

this guy is also pretty skinny w/ a skinny neck but i think hes too young...

This guy however is in great shape, thats what I like to see

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=334167

This Bt is much more "rotund" and has more body mass

http://www.fybexotics.com/lizards/blackthroats/vai0022.html

Now generally do waters get fatter and have wider/bigger necks and are bigger in width than bts?

Thanks sorry if my wording was weird

This first one is a cumingi and very young so it has yet to bulk up.

Next one is very underfed and small for 6 months old. Very much still a baby size.

Third one is over all in good proportions for its size.

Now this last one could be 6 months of age. At this length they start to fill out and bulk up.

The blackthroat just looks like a typical imported blackthroat, around 7 months to a year old give or take. If it was raised in captivity it could of grown a bit larger by a year old.

Now for your last question.

Salvators are stream line in shape. Of course a large salvator will be bulkier then a smaller one. But they still attain the same elongated shapes. Very long pointy head compared to blackthroats. Also in captivity most get very fat and round which is not a good thing mind you. I try hard to make sure mine don't look like walking beer kegs.

Blackthroats are built like tanks short and stocky. They have large bulldog type heads. They too can get very round or obese in captivity. But they do not reach the weight of salvators so they do have less body mass.

Keep in mind you won't see the very large heavy bulk on either monitor until it is a few years old. My big male salvator is in a post below he is 10 years old.

Go to google then click images in the menu above the search bar, type in varanus salvator and search. Then do the same for varanus ionidesi. When you compare them be sure to look at same sized individuals. Then it may be more clear to you.

Varanus albigularis, ionides etc. for blackthroats

good luck in your hunt

Thanks a lot for the reply. Great analogy (bulldog v. dane). I wouldnt want my monitor to get obese either but I would want it to have body mass and not look like a twig w/ legs or a snake w/ legs (dont know if thats a good one or not :/) 90% sure im going to for a water monitor. I would like to get a cumigi or sulfur but they are very very expensive. Probably getting a high yellow sumatran from proexotics. If you've looked at the proexotics water care sheet they rank waters in different price categories and a $200 one is one of the "hottest" and rarest specimens of the year according to them. Im getting a $225 one if I buy a water.

Also the black throats that FYBexotics sells: are they unique? Do bt's normally have such vivid coloration (the red orange phase). Some of the ones I have seen are very grey or at best have have yellow spots and a decent yellow colorations but they were all f.h babies or captive hatched babies. Do FYB bt's have such vivid colors because they were imported from a certain area or that has nothing to do with it? I was looking at the bt hatchings from www.lllreptile.com (take a look at them if you have time and tell me what you think) but they do not compare visually with the FYB bts. I would get a FYB bt hands down but I want to start with a baby and watch it grow 29" is already too big for me.

Also I have a question about water monitor baby size. I see that everywhere baby waters are 12" or bigger. This is because water monitor babies come bigger than bt babies? But I want to make sure I get a baby and not a juvie. What is a good size to get a baby at. I dont want anything at 2ft(smaller would be much better). I know pro-exotics keeps their f.h babies for 3months before they sell but I dont know how big they grow each month. They do seem pretty long in the picture gallery.

Also can I see some pics of your waters JP? Full body if possible. You can email me at crashov3r1de@msn.com or link here.

My female I recieved from FYB exotics (wasnt happy with the way the animal was shipped all covered in fecies). Yes the coloration I believe has something to do where his BTs are being shipped out of. Now having said that as Sobe has grown and gotten a few months older her color is changing to the normal drab grey of the BTs you see around the web.

Priing is always that way whether it be a salvator or anything else. If it looks extra nice or has more this or that than usual it will be higher priced. However what is nice to one may not be nice to another. Just choose what you like not accoridng to how someone else perceives them.

The BT's being "unique" um no. Most of the color is from the location they are collected. Which in most cases is dry un-shed skin or caked on dirt. However there are some cases where you will get one more colorful then another. But if you look close at the animal in question you will be able to tell if it is just shed skin, dirt, or real color. If buying a BT I would go for a baby not those older imports.

I have pictures to show various different colors of BT's. They range from very dark almost solid black to light silvery gray. Some have a blue/mint hue to them others a red/orange. You will also see some with brighter yellow spots rather then white. But most of them end up gray and white dotted.

Salvators also come in many color variations mostly between different locals. By 3 months you could end up getting a 18"-22" salvator of course there are degrees of variation you may end up with some being smaller then that.

There are plenty of baby salvators around so your task shouldn't be to hard.

If thats the case w/ BTs then they are not for me. I like the colors of the waters a lot (especially the yellow). The sulfurs look really good but they are out of my ballpark right now. Since I have no experience w/ waters I wouldnt buy a 1k animal. Maybe a sulfur will be my 2nd water monitor.

I called PE and Robyn will send some pics. He says he has 2 sizes of water babies. One is 5-6" body length and the other is 8-9". The longer ones have more mass but I think w. tail they would be 20" or so. I want something smaller because I really love watching grow and I would want a smaller size.

How big were yours Jp when you started w/ them and who did you buy from. Also how much did you pay for the cumigi?

Can you post some pics or link me to any photoalbums or email ,me

if you like brighter colors then you'd have to go with a whitehtroat or banded cape to get a high contrast albigularis.
But to each his own I actually liked the pattern and color of my blackthroats. I did have some nicely colored ones as well as the norm.

The water monitor in the picture series above the first one is a baby 6-7" body.

I have purchased babies as well as adults. I imported my cumingi. I also work with togians,sulfurs, and marmoratus crosses. Check out the pictures I posted above.

Good luck.

I just found some captive bred water monitors! Good price too, However I dont know if I should go for these. They do not seem too visually impressive. Imo the PE ones look better. Lets have your opinion

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/available/index.php?method=showdetails&list=advertisement&rollid=270&fromfromlist=classifiedscategory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=25

Here are the PE ones http://www.proexotics.com/collection_new.html

the first 4 are the "old" babies that are 8-9" body length

The first one looks like a common colored baby. It will change as it grows and may get more colorful. The second set are all 24 inches judging by the size of them on the picture. So they have had more time to develop and color up but they also look to have higher amounts of yellow.

Note most people do not know the difference between locals so you may be told your buying a sumatran but end up with a javan or visa versa. You also may end up with a malaysian. These three are the most commonly seen.

If you want a captive bred animal that has high amounts of color in which can rival cumingi or sulfur. Then you should look into marmoratus crosses. Otherwise you'll have to wait around and hand pick your high yellow salvator fom whoever happens to have one.

I took a look at your monitors only one thing to say BEAUTIFUL. The last one is HUGE.

Here are the ones I especially liked. Can you please tell me which type/locality each one is..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/jungleshadows/varanus/marmomale3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/jungleshadows/varanus/PICT2650.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/jungleshadows/varanus/Image005.jpg

Also those CB babies i showed you are those the regular waters or sumatrans? Do you have AIM or MSN?

>>I took a look at your monitors only one thing to say BEAUTIFUL. The last one is HUGE.

Thanks, That last one is my big male. Same as the pic above it by my boots. He is just a year older and alot bigger. He is a malaysian or mainland type.

This is a male marmoratus cross. Produced by reptile guru female marmoratus crossed with a male sumatran.

This is a female marmoratus cross sibling to the male above.

Last my big female, sold to me as sumatran. However looks more like a high yellow javan to me possible burma.

>>Also those CB babies I showed you are those the regular waters or sumatrans? Do you have AIM or MSN?

Look like sumatrans to me. John Adragna over at cybersalvator is a bit better at locality then I am. He might be able to shed more of an exact on these. I have msn

Just got some cool sumatran pics from PE, some look small Can I get you msn?

Btw what do you think of a vision tank for the baby 36x28x18? Want it in there for 2 months or a bit more.

Do you use red bulbs if your night time temp drops? Do they hurt the monitors eyes (I know they hurt tegu eyes).

I know that UVB is not needed but using it wont hurt right. There is a lot of MBD these days. Besides if my room is dark the uvb will brighten up the cage at day time since I will not use any incandescent lamps.

>>Just got some cool sumatran pics from PE, some look small Can I get you msn?

My msn is under my email address pitbull911@hotmail.com

>>Btw what do you think of a vision tank for the baby 36x28x18? Want it in there for 2 months or a bit more.

Vision cages work well for raise up cages, if you can handle spending that much for a temporary cage. I have raised monitors in tanks, troughs, vision cages, various other plastic cages, modified rubbermaid tubs, etc.

>>Do you use red bulbs if your night time temp drops? Do they hurt the monitors eyes (I know they hurt tegu eyes).

No I do nto use any red bulbs. During the summer the lights simply go out at night. Where my reptile cages are stays very warm. During the winter some cages have heat mats others I simply leave the light on. I only have basking lights in the cages. So although it is a 24/7 basking light the cage itself gets dark in all other areas at night. You could use this method all year around.

>>I know that UVB is not needed but using it wont hurt right. There is a lot of MBD these days. Besides if my room is dark the uvb will brighten up the cage at day time since I will not use any incandescent lamps.

You can use them they wont hurt anything. The UV levels drop in time and then need to be replaced to remain effective. I choose not to use them. I instead offer whole prey items as the staple diet. Then build upon that with other food items.

The bulbs I use are 45-65 watt incandescent floods, you can also use halogens. These are placed close enough to the basking area to give a surface temp. of 130-150. The rest of the cage ends up with a gradient down to 70's the furthest from the light.

Can these floodlights be purchased at a local hardware store like Home Depot? Also what king of reflector will I need? Can I just plug the floodlight in the reflector that comes standard w/ the vision cage?

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/vision-cages/vision-cages-1/-/v332-vision-cage-with-extra-vent/

Also do I need to buy the light fixture seperatly since this is just the cage and not a package

Also Jp what do you think of ornate/hypo niles are they rare? Worth getting?

Any idea where Ican look at some babie (of the rare ones). Albino babies are too expensive (they will be comming from newenglandreptile)

Ornates are not niles they are varanus ornatus, while niles are varanus niloticus. So not sure what you mean by hypo/ornate nile. Is this a cross of niles and ornates or something?

Or are you talking about the niles being advertised recently as hypos? Those are all just different localities. Most of which are niles not ornates. Ornates have a bulky fat head thicker jaw and different pattern. Typically 5 rows of spots on the back and a pink tongue color. Niles have elongated narrower heads more rows of spots on the back and black/purple tongues.

If you have a picture of one please post it so I know what your talking about.

Rare niles or monitors???

For vision cages you can get 5 1/2 inch reflector domes they fit right into the built in shroud. If you get the one with the extra vent you can also use a flourescent strip light or uv which ever you decide on.

The bulbs I use are sold at home depot, walmart, lowes etc. Just regular 45-65 watt incandescent indoor floods, or you can use halogen outdoor floods too. If getting halogens be sure it does not have a clear hexagon center. Those bulbs suck and have been known to cause burns.

Is it hard to elevate the basking spot in the vision since the fixture sticks out and there is less space to raise the spot? As for hypos/ornates I meant those bluish looking niles.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=651524,651524

like that...its beautiful what kind is that

also like that http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=340952

where can i get a nile baby like that..u got any sources? i love the big head

If you know the different looks and pattern (have a good eye) then you can tell the locality or types apart.

You'll be hard pressed to find true captive babies.

If you get a nile they get huge (like a blackthroat) with a long head shape. Males have a bigger head then females more bulky like the big male you posted. But ornates have a larger more bulky shorter head. They also are not known for being gentle or easy to handle.

Check out these posts of mine to see some more nile and ornate pictures.

Who said niles only come in one style?

egyptian blue nile

the big one is a tanzanian, the other is a newer locality that has come in a few times. I forget the exact place but I have one myself. I also have the true egyptian blue locality.

All of these come in as niles. Some places selling them will tell you the locality others simply dont know.

oh. do the babies show the same coloration as adults? So do i have to look for babies bluish in color. I see plenty of black babies w/ yellow spots but i dont htinkl thats what im looking for

No they will lighten up with age and size. I could probly point you in the right direction if you let me know what you want.

Check out the change the baby I hatched is going through. Niether of his parents started out yellow either.
Baby

Wow that is awesome, great looking baby. Did you know that color change was going to happen.

Can you point me to a nile that will turn bluish like the big female I linked you to (http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=651524,651524 )

Here are some places that have niles.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/animals/monitors-and-tegus/-/baby-nile-monitors/

http://www.regalreptile.com/nile_7-3.jpg

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=346834

can you look att he classifies maybe u will be able to spot anything that will turn blue.

also i found cb bt's on classified for $90

Those baby niles will most likely turn out to be a grey and yellow background. You can never tell the amounts of blue on this type as it varies. These are to young to be showing any hints to adult coloration.

The baby blackthroats you found are most likely imports. Noone I know breeding them would sell that cheap. Most places say c/b even if they are wild caught babies or so called farm hatched in africa.

Had no idea my niles would change to that high of a yellow in coloration.

As for that big male nile you posted the picture of. It looks to be a tanzanian locality. There are plenty of them around. They can have a grey silver back with varying amounts of yellow, with a blueish hue on the sides. The whole animal however is not blue. The egyptian locality is the only one I know of that gets blue throughout.